John Shultz  0:01  

Hey this John Schultz with the Olympia Indie Music History Project, on- what is it, the 21st? February 21st 2023. I'm here with Jon Merithew of The Noses and C Average and ONETON and etc, etc, etc,

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Jon Merithew  0:20  

Yeah, I’m trying to remember all the bands. Yeah.

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John Shultz  0:24  

Well, you gotta, you gotta. You're on you're on the spot. You gotta remember them all now, Jon.

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Jon Merithew  0:31  

[laughing] Real bands and imaginary bands? Because I was in some imaginary bands. My first band was an imaginary band.

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John Shultz  0:39  

No, you don’t have to remember them all. So you're not from Olympia, are you?

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Jon Merithew  0:43  

I was born in Aberdeen, of all places. 1968. My parents were living in Tacoma. And they moved to Aberdeen- my dad was starting a plywood mill there. He worked at a warehouse, there were a bunch of people who moved to Aberdeen to start this thing. And then it folded about a year later, but I was born in the interim. So by... 69 or 70, probably- we're back in Tacoma and then in 76 We moved to Olympia.

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John Shultz  1:22  

Gotcha, and were you with.. Thurston?

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Jon Merithew  1:25  

Thurston, Thurston. Southbay, Chinook, and then Thurston.

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John Shultz  1:32  

When did you decide... when did you get into music? What was the first thing you heard, like, “that's cool as shit and I gotta learn more about that action.”

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Jon Merithew  1:42  

I think it was probably Elvis stuff.  Rock and roll and all that.

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John Shultz  1:48  

...that’s what your parents listened to? Doo wop and all that?

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Jon Merithew  1:51  

 Yeah. My mom was into Elvis. My dad was into everything, and anything that came along. But my mom was a big Elvis fan. But only the early stuff. He sold out right when he started doing movies. You know? He sold out… My mom didn't like him when he started to get even slick and do stuff with Colonel Parker. She liked the real early Elvis. 

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John Shultz  Yeah, gospel years. 

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Jon Merithew  Yeah. He actually came to Lincoln Heights. She went to Lincoln High School in Tacoma. He went to Lincoln bowl there and played, and my mom was over it. She was like, I'm not gonna go and see him. I was like, Holy mackerel, mom! It must have been in the late 50s or early 60s.

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John Shultz  2:47  

Crazy. Crazy. When’d you decide you wanted- Well, okay, what was the first music you found that you love?

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Jon Merithew  2:54  

I feel like the first song that I really remember hearing and being like “Whoa” was “Green Onions” by Booker T and the MGs. Memphis group, I think is what MG stands for. That song was rippin’.

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John Shultz  3:16  

How old were you?

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Jon Merithew  3:17  

I don't know, but I know that I can trace it to that. It might have been- let's see... You know, like in the 70s, mid 70s, The ‘50s and ‘60s were really big? Like,  American Graffiti and Lords of Flatbush and then Happy Days on TV, and Laverne & Shirley, and Sha Na Na. It was a part of that whole thing. So it was in the 70s sometime. Grease, yeah. Because I know that that drag scene in American Graffiti has Green Onions playing, and it's just so cool. So that probably has something to do with it, is that. Maybe even seeing that movie and hearing it. But I think it was just on the radio one time, and boom!

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John Shultz  4:08  

Interesting. First first song I remember hearing... “I got a name” by Jim Croce. I was like three, probably. 

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Jon Merithew  4:14  

Oh, nice. I do remember some Jim Croce hit me too.

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John Shultz  4:19  

Yeah, first thing my mom was a huge Elvis fan till he died. Same thing, Elvis. Yeah. My dad was into country. Ever get into any country? You get into any of that action?

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Jon Merithew  4:30  

No… I came into that later a little bit, but really only just classic stuff and kind of like rockabilly, really, more than country. But I remember my parents apparently really dug the Beatles when they came out. And again, they were together by that point. I remember them saying, Oh, we really liked them. And everyone didn't, really. I mean, some people liked them. But most people thought oh, their hair's too long and weird.

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John Shultz  5:01  

It was so short. Yeah, my mom didn't like the Beatles. She graduated in ‘62, she was kind of right there and she justy didn’t like ‘em.

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Jon Merithew  5:13  

weird.

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John Shultz  5:17  

We still have arguments about it… So when did you first start thinking about playing music? Did your parents play or anything like that?

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Jon Merithew  5:21  

No, no, but they had a good record collection, or at least an eclectic one. But my first real music that I really liked was movie soundtracks. I really liked that. I really dug, I had that Disney record that was Robin Hood, so I loved that. Who's that guy… it's not Marty Robbins... [sings opening song from Disney’s Robin Hood] Roger Miller. So I liked that stuff. And I liked the Superman soundtrack, and just like TV, like the Six Million Dollar Man one, you know. [sings theme song] And then I remember singing myself to sleep. Trying to remember like that. I vividly [recall] like, “how do I remember music?” “I want to remember this and be able to sing it to myself while I'm playing out in the yard.” Because I could do that [sound effect “tenena Nananananana”] I could do all that. But I needed to have the music because it was such a big part of those TV shows. Oh, and the other one I remember singing myself to sleep, trying to remember- because I had to, I couldn't play an instrument yet- I'm trying to hum the melody. And that was the James Bond. That was another one. That was a big one. Because that guitar was “[imitates James Bond guitar melody]. So good. And so I would try to remember that. And that was easier like that. Yeah. But the middle part that was the [imitates theme music], I would sing myself to sleep with that. I could hear it in the living room playing because my parents are watching one of the movies, you know, and I would just be  trying to remember it when I was asleep. I think it was probably in the third or fourth grade, I met Kelly Van Camp and I met Tim Brown. Those were the two others- Tim Brown and Kelly Van Camp were in The Noses. And we were friends before we became The Noses, and we had a fake band called The Four Hands with another friend Todd Lingenfelder. And we were fake. We were an imaginary band, we were a British Invasion band because we all hung out, went over to each other's houses and had sleepovers and stuff. And we would listen to- Kelly had older brothers, and so he had all this music. And we would listen to you know, the British Invasion stuff, the stones, and the kinks and the who and the Beatles especially. And the Yardbirds. They were like, super awesome.

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John Shultz  8:34  

Wait, Kelly, listened to the Beatles? No...

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Jon Merithew  8:35  

No [laughing]. And so for fun, we just started to pretend we were British for a while and then we were just pretend we were in a band called The Four Hands. And then we would draw album covers and like, draw…

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John Shultz   That was like elementary school?

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Jon Merithew  Yeah, this was this was right around fourth grade, we had a club called... “KeJonTimOdd” I think was the name of the club. KeJonTimOdd. It was Kelly, John, Tim and Todd- KeJonTimOdd. [laughing] But then a part of that was, that we were all members- we were each a member of the Four Hands. And I think I came up with the name of the band. But Kelly started drawing all of us and he would do the track listings too. And then you know those- like on the back of those old records, they would always have the sort of like, “The Kinks! The four lads are into this and that and the other…”

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John Shultz  Liner notes. 

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Jon Merithew  Yeah, yeah. And they have a picture of them and stuff like “this one likes chocolate.” So he would write down those things too. And I was just amazed at Kelly, with his artwork. And then I finally went over to his house because we did a lot of this. 

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John Shultz  And nobody played an instrument?

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Jon Merithew  Well, Kelly did. Kelly played drums. But he had two older brothers and cousins. And he had a band called Flammable Gas. Because his parents- his dad was the chief of fire at the South Bay Fire Department. And he had these stickers that you could put on certain things like “corrosive material,” and then “flammable gas.” And so he had a sticker and gave it to Kelly, and Kelly put it on the front of his Sears drum kit that he got- like a teeny tiny, tin can, pie plate sort of symbols and stuff. And so he put it on the front. And that became the name of the band, and they would do recordings. And there's some recordings of them just being so silly. But yeah, that's where the idea of making up a band came from. He'd already done it for years with his brothers and his cousins and Matt Van Camp, I think. And so I went over to his house, because we did a lot of this stuff at school. And I finally went over to his house at one point, and I saw his drum set. I was like, “Oh, that's really cool. Can you play that?” and he's like, Yeah. And it just looked like a toy to me. But he got on it, and he sounded amazing. He sounded like John Bonham, he made that thing sound like it was real. And I was like, This is so great. You're amazing. And he also had a guitar, he had like a little Memphis, I think was the brand. It was like a Silvertone, or a Sears brand. Memphis was what it was at that point. And they had a serious solid state, like one 10 inch speaker amplifier. And he had tuned the guitar to one chord, kind of like you would do if you were doing slide or tuning open tuning and taught me kind of the 12 bar blues, essentially- which is what ”green onions” is, too. So that's kind of interesting. So that was my first actual playing. And my sister had a guitar. But I didn't really know how to play it... it was acoustic and I would lay my head on it. And I would just kind of like pluck the strings. And I figured out that the top string and the bottom string, or the biggest string and the smallest string were the same. I could tell somehow that they were the same. So I’d use those a lot. And I went to kind of [imitates octaves on a guitar], and it was just my first song I wrote [laughing] which I still play every once in a while... We all know that one. Then we started getting together and playing for real, trying to learn songs and stuff.

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John Shultz  Tim got a bass and everything?

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Jon Merithew  Yeah, that came a little later… I think, in junior high. After Kelly and Tim had- I didn't lose touch, but I didn't see him very often because they were in the same hall and I was in a different Hall. It was like three halls. They were in Hall C, and I was in Hall A. And so for a while I didn't see him and they were doing like orchestra and band together, and jazz band and stuff. But Tim was playing cello at the time. And so at some point, we're over at Kelly's playing and he was like, we should get Tim. And I was like, Oh yeah, Tim. I'm good friends with Tim. You know, except for we were playing- like we were doing a different thing. It was weird. I had like Kelly was my like music friend but Tim was like, he was my Star Wars and my Zorro and Robin Hood and whatever, Dungeons and Dragons friend. So it was a weird thought, like, “Should I mix those two together? It's weird!” But it ended up being great. And Tim got a bass and used an old reel to reel that he put on RECORD. He pressed play, record, and pause, then plugged his- there was an input – he plugged his bass in and then it would it would come out of two speakers... It was like a suitcase, and the top was a speaker. It was a weird setup and it smelled like it was gonna burn. It was burning every time we played- [laughing] it was the dust on the tubes or the transistors- but it sounded really cool. And he had this St George bass. It was an exciting time because we were doing stuff like “I want to be your lover”, “I want to be your man,” the Beatles tune, and also the stones did it I think. I remember just being like, “oh my gosh, this sounds so much better with a bass. It's so great”

John Shultz  You were doing songs by then?

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Jon Merithew:  Yeah, we were doing all those those like some Stones songs, we did Beatles, 

Kinks were easy because the were fun, and it was great for it with the open tuning because you could just use a finger going [Imitates “You Really Got Me” Guitar riff]. You know, and the Yardbirds were a little harder. The Who was kind of hard. And only the early stuff too, none of the stuff- we were just focused on their earlier stuff because… we were young, they were young at the time of recording. And so for some reason, it was just easier. It was more primitive than what they ended up being- like the more advanced stuff that they were doing later. We couldn't do that at all. And in fact, I couldn't play and sing. At the same time I couldn't even play and really think or move at the same time. So Kelly was like, Okay, well, I'll just sing. So he ended up being the singer of The Noses, really. And I developed into it. And we then sang harmonies, which is great- which not a lot of people were doing in town. Certainly in the ‘90s. And in the ‘80s, we didn't know anybody else. I mean, we started sort of just playing… we played at the Capital City Marathon water stations every year for a couple years. We were The Noses at that point.

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John Shultz  16:35  

When did The Noses form? Was it like your junior year in high school?

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Jon Merithew  16:39  

I think… we were freshmen when it started... maybe the last year of junior high. And we didn't have a name yet. We were just playing and we didn't have a name. When Kelly was in freshman year, he was in debate class and they had a presentation. And the teacher said that you could you could do a speech or you could do like a skit, or you could do a performance, it could be a musical performance. And Kelly was like “Ding!” Ah, okay. And so we had just figured out Mr. You're a better man than I by the Yardbirds, and we weren't even singing at that point, we were just playing instrumental versions of stuff. So that was our first real gig, we went in to the band room, and the whole class assembled. And I realized at that point how nervous I was. I wasn't really nervous until all those people came in, and then my ears  turned bright red. And I couldn't even remember anything. And we tried to play it, actually, I think it turned out pretty good. But there was no singing and I kind of like, “Oh, this isn't- we’re not that good. I'm sorry, everybody.” [laughing] But I think people really liked it. Oh, and it was that thing where I hadn't quite figured out- I think I had a Peavey Bandit 65. And I was using the channels, it had two channels and had a little foot switch. You have your your clean channel, your clean channel is really loud. And then your distorted channel- because it's not like putting a distortion pedal on a clean channel where it's just like- or a booster or whatever. I didn't quite understand that. And I'd been playing it in my room and that that loud distortion was just like, oh, this is so cool. But it was so quiet. So when I stepped on it to do like the the solo part. It was just like, it just kind of disappeared. It was like, what? So that was a fun lesson to learn. So that was the first one, and then we I was in another band called CAZH. that had one guy, one or two guys, from Timberline. But it had two brothers that went to Thurston, the Stookey brothers Dan and Dave Stookey. Dan played bass and Dave played guitar, and they had a band called CAZH. Chuck Hess was the drummer, cool dude. And they sort of recruited me and we played I think junior year-The North Thurston Talent Show.

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[Recording stops and resumes]

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John Shultz  0:00  

Alright, sorry, technical difficulties. We’re talking about CAZH and the talent show with The Noses doing “Louie Louie...”

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Jon Merithew  0:09  

And “my generation”. And the fact that CAZH was way more modern, the songs... they were doing some new wave stuff. They did like to do Toy Dolls too, do you remember that band? “Modern school of motoring” and “Nelly the elephant.” But that didn't last long because I just kind of was more into doing some Noses stuff and we had been playing, like I said, the Capital City marathon, one time we played- or twice actually, I think- we played the what do you call it? I think this might have been ‘87... ‘86, ‘87, ‘88. We played at the end of the marathon. One time it was in the gazebo, the year before. It was in front of the gazebo in Sylvester Park. And let's see, what are some other shows that we, The Noses did? We had really weird shows.

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John Shultz  1:19  

Just doing covers still?

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Jon Merithew  1:21  

Yeah. We had a couple of originals. But mostly covers. And we were doing- I know that- Oh, we did an after school or after game dance at- I think this was ‘87... In 86 we did a show, it was a battle of the bands at at South Puget Sound. And the bands were The Noses from North Thurston, and from Timberline, it was CAZH. And Oly was...

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John Shultz  2:04  

And that was the older band. 

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Jon Merithew  2:06  

Yeah, exactly. Let's see if I can look at this... I had a picture of it. And it was Subculture, I think.

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John Shultz  Who was in that?

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Jon Merithew I don’t know, and I don't know if they were from Capitol. Or if they were from...

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John Shultz  2:22  

I don’t think it was from Capitol. I went to Capitol at that time. I don't remember a band called Subculture.

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Jon Merithew  2:26  

Oh, Oly. Capital... Mirror Image was Capitol. Yeah… I just got that from- that was something I took a picture of. CAZH, Timberline. Mirror image, Capitol. Subculture, Oly. And The Noses, North Thurston. 

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John Shultz  Who won?

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Jon Merithew  The Noses. We got a pizza or something. Or $100. And we said we were going to throw a pizza party for all the bands. But I don't I don't think we ever did.

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John Shultz  3:06  

You bought a mixing board instead? [laughing]

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Jon Merithew  3:09  

Yeah, probably. Or a microphone, two microphones. Let's see. We were on KAOS. after that. I remember we actually got asked to come on KAOS and play in the studio, I think because we won the battle of the bands. And that was one of the coolest shows. It was Tobi Vail and Heidi Keys. They were in a band called Doris at the time. But they had a show on KAOS. I can't remember what it was called. But the engineer for that show for the sound was Calvin Johnson. And I think he was still going to school at that point, or maybe not. So this might have been in ‘86... Could have been ‘87- but that was a fun one we played. And we were doing a couple of originals at that point. But nothing crazy. We put out a tape I think in ‘89. But this was all kind of going on. And I had heard of bands while I was still in high school. So I graduated ‘87. So this would be pre-’87. And I remember hearing about Danger Mouse, which was a band that was playing around a bunch and Girl Trouble, I'd heard about them. Yeah, but nothing other than that. Like I didn't hear anything about Soundgarden.

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John Shultz  Hell Trout?

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Jon Merithew  Helltrout, yes, there was that was a little bit later I think. But not much. Because we started playing at the same kind of time where I think I went to school in 87 and then came back and was here and by 88, and I think in 88 and 89, Kelly had joined because Tim went to Wazoo. And so we were both gone. So Kelly was just like, I'm just gonna keep playing music. I think he was going to South Puget Sound at the time. But he ended up playing with Treehouse which was a great band from Olympia. They were on the “It's the Water” compilation And I think Danger Mouse was too and I think Fitz. I think I saw Fitz… Fitz ever play at your house? 

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John Shultz  My house? No.

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Jon Merithew  5:33  

I think you were at the same party I was at though. West Bay drive, maybe and, and Fitz played Like,

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John Shultz  5:41  

In a little bitty room.

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Jon Merithew  5:42  

It felt like it was too small. I thought it was like the, you know, the split levels from the 70s and 80s. When you walk in the front door, you can either go down to the basement or up. They were playing in that little landing, the foyer of that house. And they were kind of bad, I remember.

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John Shultz  6:04  

Oh, this must have been later. No, this was probably ‘91 I'm thinking about, a show on West Bay Drive here. That house is like insurance now, and it was like the Victorian houses down there. Yeah. It was a little bedroom, fuckin’ no bigger than this room right here!

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Jon Merithew  6:19  

Well, in 91, I think they were probably killer. [Yeah, they were killer.] Yeah. Because when I saw them, it was like, Craig Becker was not the tall lanky, kick ass time machine... Time Machine. That sounds like he went back in time. What I mean is like he was a perfect timekeeper. Yeah, he was like a machine. But he still had baby fat on him. And it was just kind of like [makes goofy sound effect] And it was cool...

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John Shultz  6:46  

Was that with...Nineteen Boy Scouts?

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Jon Merithew  6:48  

Oh, I don't know. 

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John Shultz  6:51  

I talked to Ryan Bombard last Saturday. And he had this wonderful thing- which, yes, Kelsey and Elaine, I will get a copy of it- It's a big sheet of paper. Like this was like the family tree of Olympia bands, and sort of like, pet projects. Like Ethan and Chris Pugh. And yeah, then young pioneers then all that, I think. Yeah, I think I don't know if Craig was in Nineteen Boy Scouts or not actually. Best pre Fitz? Oh, Look at that, I got two pictures of it.

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Jon Merithew  7:28  

Oh, nice.

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John Shultz  7:30  

I don’t know if you can check that and see it or not, But Ryan's gonna make me copy. ...so it depends on what year it was. I’d say for certain it was ‘87, ‘88.

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Jon Merithew  7:39  

It could have been, I betcha it was about 88, because I had just come back. I was very bummed out that Kelly was playing with another band, but we would still play. We played shows and stuff like that. But Treehouse was on another level, professionally, like, I was just like, whoa, they didn't play any covers. They played maybe one or two covers.

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John Shultz  8:02  

Every band’s got to.

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Jon Merithew  8:05  

But… then I realized, oh, that's what I want The Noses to do, more originals. And just be that kind of like- they had a reputation of you know, being a cool band. And they had cred. I wanted cred.

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John Shultz  8:26  

so 88 We came back into town.

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Jon Merithew  8:28  

Yeah, I would say we can come back. Tim came back closer to... well, he came back every year. I think he went because I dropped out. And I start going to South Puget Sound. He continued. So he played… he was in a band called Share Vare. And hey played Boston and Journey and it was crazy, Yeah. And that was in Pullman… or Moscow, maybe? I'm not sure. That's right across the border. So, yeah, I think he came back two years after high school because that would have been, I think he went and got a two year degree. So that would be what, ‘89. And then we started playing kind of serious. Yeah, played a couple of shows at South Puget Sound. We played one show, and we had a guest. That was this dude, Steve Hahn. He was a great rockabilly guitar shredder...

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John Shultz  9:33  

[He’d] teach at some [store]? I took some lessons from him... 

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Jon Merithew  9:39  

He had really long hair. Yeah?

John Shultz  Yeah.  That's a shredder. 

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Jon Merithew  He ended up going to NYU film school and then becoming he I think he ended up becoming a teacher- taught in like, Brooklyn or someplace. Maybe... I think he teaches in in England now. I know. But we played another show. We're at, I think, in the 90s, ‘91, ‘92. Or it could have been even as late as ‘93, or ‘94. Might have been earlier, with a saxophone player and a keyboard player, sort of at that point where we're so influenced by the scene. So the scene-

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John Shultz  10:21  

what was the scene in that early [‘90s]?

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Jon Merithew  10:24  

I wasn't really a part of it. Or I was a part of it, but I didn't know that it was so- I don't want to say fractured… and not factioned. But there were different- Like, there were so many elements to the scene. There was the jazz scene, right? The jazz scene was already going, you like probably early 80s, maybe even the 70s for all I know. There was sort of a rock cover band scene that was going on since the 70s and 80s. And then there was the sort of punk scene. 

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John Shultz  11:06  

That started like 81 with Pet Products and Crib Death and all those Nathan Paull bands and Chris Pugh bands, right?

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Jon Merithew  11:17  

There was a metal scene, you know, with Death Squad and Aggressor… and Cyprus. I saw them at Tumwater High School, like ‘88. I think their battle of the bands was awesome.

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John Shultz  11:37  

Scott was a nice guy, he was cool guy...

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Jon Merithew  11:44  

Yeah… So there was so many parts of it, you know. I didn't even really know that that there was a scene necessarily, until I started going downtown, which was probably I didn't even start drinking. Because I didn't go to bars. I would have been 21 in ‘89. And I wasn't really in the bar scene until I was about 22. So that would have been about ‘90... ‘89 or ‘90… started going downtown more, seeing bands down at the North Shore. Although I didn't see Nirvana ever… 

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John Shultz  You never saw Nirvana live? Really?

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Jon Merithew  Never. Yeah, missed ‘em. Kelly was playing in Treehouse- when they, Treehouse, opened up from Nirvana at I want to say GESCCO. And me and my friend Steve Yonker And I think Tim Brown- we went down to go and check out the show, but we missed it completely. We didn't even see- We didn't get down early to see the band we were supposed to do, but we missed Nirvana even. And they were like, pretty freaked out about it. They were just like, Man, that was so awesome. And I was just like, Oh, really? couldn't have been that great. You know...

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John Shultz  13:18  

I saw Fitz open for Nirvana In ‘91 at a Gulf War protest show at Evergreen. 

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Jon Merithew  Oh, wow. 

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John Shultz  And Fitz destroyed them. I thought Fitz were better. I thought if anybody was gonna get big, it was gonna be fucking Fitz. You know, shit happens. Right?

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Jon Merithew  13:37  

They were tight. Yeah, that's the thing about.. so what drummer…?

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John Shultz  13:43  

At that time I think that was pre-Grohl.

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Jon Merithew  13:45  

See? That's what changed for them. I feel like once they had Dave, they were just- like, [snaps fingers] something clicked in a way that it hadn't before. And I'm not saying that, that the earlier drummer wasn't as good because you can hear it on the record. That's, that's pretty awesome. Although I hadn't even listened to- I think the first song I heard of Nirvana was dive and that was on that Sub Pop compilation tape. Right. And I was like, Oh, this is pretty cool. But I think, Wasn't there  Screaming Trees on that too? And I was just like, Screaming Trees. Screaming Trees, were just like, damn…

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John Shultz  14:26  

because The Noses... you guys weren't punk... 

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Jon Merithew  No, we weren’t.

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John Shultz  what would you classify The Noses as?

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Jon Merithew  14:35  

Rock and roll. And that's the thing- what I was kind of getting at is that we were influenced by the scene that we knew of. We didn't really know about the punk scene. We didn't really know about the metal scene even- although I did like metal at the time, but it wasn't my influence. My influence was that- there at least through half my life- was rock and roll.

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John Shultz  15:02  

And 60s 70s the who, that kinda stuff.

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Jon Merithew  15:05  

Yeah, yeah. And I wanted to get heavier. You know, I liked Zeppelin, but I hadn't ever heard any Sabbath yet. That came in the 90s for me.

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John Shultz  15:21  

That surprises the hell out of me...because of Sabbath.

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Jon Merithew  15:23  

I know, well, it kind of surprises me too. like, how did I miss that? ‘97? When I started listening to Sabbath in earnest, like as I like, I realized, Oh, this is my, this is my stuff. How I saw- I was just like, Okay, I'm gonna start studying this stuff. That was ‘96, ‘97. But that's basically what C average came from is like me being like, my mind getting blown again. It's so cool. Because like, today, if you discovered a band you could get your mind blown again, you know, it would be you would just be like, oh, I want to go straight to the studio and start playing guitar because this was inspiring in a way.

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John Shultz  16:07  

The black angels for me, it's a new band I discovered... out of Boston. They formed  in like ‘06, I think, and I got turned on to them a couple of years ago. Holy balls, I love ‘em.

‍

Jon Merithew  16:16  

Sweet. Awesome. I’ll hafta Check that out.

‍

John Shultz  16:19  

It doesn't happen very often.

‍

Jon Merithew  16:21  

But it might be more us than than the actual music that's out there. Like I'm a little close minded.

‍

John Shultz  16:28  

Yeah, me too.

‍

Jon Merithew  16:30  

I don't know what happened but I got that way. You know, I think I just got older. But we were really influenced by the jazz scene. And we're kind of influenced by- because we met up with this guy... Let's see. What is his name again? Well, we were playing with with Steve Munger a little bit. And this other cat we had on our record. I don't know if it was Scott's brother. But Was he related?

‍

John Shultz  17:08  

Yeah, he was a saxist [sic]. Yeah. Scott's older brother.

‍

Jon Merithew  17:12  

Wow. Yeah, he was fantastic. Oh, and Tom Pereira was the other saxophone player. But young, he was younger, and he was going to Evergreen. And he really kind of got us into jazz. But my problem is that I could play blues, or blues-based rock. I could not play jazz. I was just- I'm just not very good at it. So I was kind of like faking it and stuff. And then at the same time, Kelly was kind of getting into country so we were getting a little bit of country in there and rockabilly, which I didn't mind. This is late 80s, early 90s... So when we started writing our own stuff, there was like this jazz influence that came in and this country influence and then my influence was- I was starting to get influenced by- and this was like, I want to say 91, 92- I was starting to get influenced by the Seattle scene, which I didn't understand kind of came out of the Olympia scene, part of it did. Because really, like well Melvins and…

‍

John Shultz  Green River?

‍

Jon Merithew Yeah, and Nirvana was basically an Olympia band for a while, you know? But... I didn't really listen to Nirvana until Nevermind came out. And a lot of people are saying, Oh, I don't like Nevermind, and I love it. It's still to this day, my favorite Nirvana record. It's so good. How can you hate it? It's so good.

‍

John Shultz  18:52  

It's overproduced- I'm a bleach guy. I like it dirty, raw...

‍

Jon Merithew  18:57  

I still think no matter how much you over produce nirvana It still comes out raw, like, that stuff sounds raw to me. It's weird.

‍

John Shultz  19:06  

Now this this many years later, I’m starting to really appreciate Nevermind.

‍

Jon Merithew  19:10  

Well, and also, no, Nevermind has some of the most amazing songwriting or at least riffs and song- like the writing itself, always has been so sort of like cerebral like almost word salad, kind of like poetry art. But the music has always been like the the riffs have been so shred and killer like boom, I just love that. And so heavy but it was so Poppy. And that was what I was- because I was really into pop too, because the who were the epitome of heavy pop. And so I feel-

‍

John Shultz  Their early stuff…

‍

Well, that’s true. And it was more rhythm and blues, but… they also had pop songs, because you kind of had to if you wanted to make it big, and that was where they were coming from. They wanted to be the Kinks essentially. And the Beatles everybody wanted to be the Beatles. Sabbath wanted to be the Beatles. 

‍

John Shultz  20:16  

yeah, I met you guys, god it had to have been ‘91. I dunno where we were, the basement of somebody's house... [I don’t know if it was] Kelly's [or where] you guys lived. Ki was there and all those guys. And I jammed with you guys. You let me play your Rickenbacker.

‍

Jon Merithew  20:34  

Oh, cool. I still had the Rickenbacker.

‍

John Shultz  20:37  

I was talking to Tim. Because the way Tim Played reminded me of Geezer Butler of Sabbath. So it's like, we were talking about Sabbath, he’d never heard ‘em at that time. Yeah. Weird.

‍

Jon Merithew  20:49  

I mean, I knew the name. And I probably heard paranoid. And Iron Man, those are the two songs, right?

‍

John Shultz  20:58  

You couldn’t go through high school without hearing Sabbath! [laughing]

‍

Jon Merithew  21:01  

exactly, but for some reason, when I listened to that first record- and the whole thing was like, because the first record- it doesn't have Iron Man. It doesn't have paranoid. 

‍

John Shultz  No, that's the album “paranoid.”

‍

Jon Merithew  And it has like- this is Black Sabbath, which I hadn't really ever heard. And then the rest of it- side two is like a blues jam And I was just like, Oh, I love that so much. And Bill Ward is a jazz drummer.

‍

John Shultz  21:32  

He's all about the swing, man.

‍

Jon Merithew  I was like, this is maybe the best band

‍

ever, you know? So I don't know. I just fell in love with it. And that was after The Noses. And that's basically because I was kind of starting to play with Brad- Oh, the other thing is that for a long time, The Noses just couldn't really catch a break. We had to self produce all of our records. We couldn't get-

‍

John Shultz  How many records you guys put out?

‍

Jon Merithew  we put out two. And we couldn't ever- We just weren't what the two local record Companies…. Kill Rock Stars and K records… They just weren't really interested in our sound. We Yeah. And we actually tried even Pop Llama which was in Bellingham. And they almost liked us enough, because we put out a single first. And it was a fella named Mike Wilson and he was the guitar player for pod. And he ended up starting a band called scribble too. He was in a band called scribble. And then he moved down to Portland started a family opened up a bunch of clubs and passed away recently, actually, kind of sad.

‍

John Shultz  22:50  

Ryan Von Bargen and you were in Pod? 

‍

Jon Merithew  22:53  

Yeah. But before I was in Pod, Mike Wilson was in Pod. In fact, I saw Pod. It was Miles Vedder, drums- and Ryan Von Bargen, and Mike Wilson. And I could just see myself in Mike Wilson. He was very similar in style. And it was like, I really liked this. And that was my first inkling of like I could, I could maybe be in that band, you know, and then he quit. And I was like, oh, maybe I'll try out. And so I was in Pod for a while. Which I really loved and really influential on me. Because it was heavy, you know? And then I started One Ton, because Brian Alexander came back into town.

‍

John Shultz  23:44  

And so this is after The Noses.

‍

Jon Merithew  23:49  

Noses are still going, So The Noses went from about 85 to 96.

‍

John Shultz  24:00  

And why'd you guys break up?

‍

Jon Merithew  24:02  

Basically, because I didn't want to play jazz and country. I wanted to steer the band in a direction that was more- This was like 95- And I wanted, like things were coming out at this time that were like Smashing Pumpkins. Although that was like 92... There was just stuff that was coming out that I was just like, we could be doing this stuff. We could be getting more opportunities. Maybe we could be getting some notoriety, but.. every time I write a song that's trying to push the edges and be a little bit more raw, a little heavier, louder and a little faster. Maybe, you know, we were always dynamic. It was like the band was also producing these sort of jazzy and country and rockabilly style stuff. And I was just like, we need to focus on one thing. But then I realized that's just not what The Noses were. So I realized I didn't really want to change the direction of The Noses. I just needed to not be in The Noses. Which is kind of sad, because what I could have, should have done was been in both, because I'd done that before, but I always had a hard time with being in two things at once… I can't multitask like that. And so I just decided I really want to focus on this. I don't [wanna] run out of time. Because I was nearing my 30s!

‍

John Shultz  What? Old man!

‍

Jon Merithew  25:56  

 I know. I'm gonna be 30 so yeah, I just said, I think I'm just gonna not be in The Noses anymore. Which basically-

‍

John Shultz  And they never- The Noses just stopped. Right? 

‍

Jon Merithew  Yeah. And I think at that point, Kelly moved to Seattle. Although I think he started playing in Engine 54 ...You remember that?

‍

John Shultz  26:19  

He did, Yeah, Scotty played in Engine 54 for a little while, right? Till they broke up, which would have been.. ‘98, ‘99.

‍

Jon Merithew  26:33  

Great band. And they were Acme Ska Corps?

‍

John Shultz  26:36  Acme Ska Corps to start.

‍

Jon Merithew  26:39  

To start. Okay, man, we were talking about that- me and Olivia were talking about that because she went to high school with those guys. Some of those guys. But she didn't know about Acme Ska. And so I just kept calling back Acme Ska Corps and she was like, I don't know. I'm sorry. So there was the ska scene, we were influenced by the ska scene too. That's another thing, we had all these- we were worse than Quadrophenia. We had so many personalities, you know, and I was just like, I'm tired of this. And at the same time, there were bands like KARP… and Melvins and local bands. Let's see, what other heavier local bands at the time. Oh, I really loved Some Velvet Sidewalk. Because they were just like, what's going on with this band? They're just insane… and Bunnyfoot Charm, Unwound. So there were these bands that were sort of like metal and god, I loved them. And Fitz, you know. And so there were these bands that I was just like, I think me and Brad could do something in this sort of scene.

‍

John Shultz  And I'm realizing that Brad Balsley... 

‍

Jon Merithew  Oh, he's been friends since junior high. Met him in Junior High. He was a friend of Kelly. They were both in band [class] together, they both played drums.

‍

John Shultz  28:25  

What was he doing Pre-C average?

‍

Jon Merithew  28:29  

He was in ONETON with me. And he was the sound guy. He was our sound guy. And every once in a while, Kelly, who had been learning how to play harmonica, would come out front and lead sing and play harmonica and Brad would get behind the kit and play. And I don't even think we had a song. We just played blues. And he was just did some stuff. But I would always play with Brad off and on and just have fun. And we kind of got into Monsters of Rock together at the Kingdome. And I guess that was 89 or 88.

‍

John Shultz  29:10  

They had a few of them. I don't know.

‍

Jon Merithew  29:12  

Me and him were really into Metallica. I got into Metallica when I was in college- and Iron Maiden and Scorpions, and I was into that kind of stuff- especially Scorpions, because they had slow songs and I would go to dances… I had a friend who had Scorpions’ Blackout. And that was one of them. I was like, Oh, I really like this- but that was sort of a secret that I kept a little bit from The Noses. I mean, they knew it, but I didn't ever say we should do heavy metal. But when I got together with Brad, I knew he was into that, and he loved and I loved Van Halen, so we would get together and sort of jam on that but I just couldn't figure it out. You know, but then I ended up in Pod. And that was a real sort of eye opening thing. It was like, Okay, we're sort of like, Rush. We're like Olympia’s like prog metal. [laughing] Yeah. And then he started One Ton with me, and Brian had a book of poetry and he wanted to do some rock.  And he was really into Pearl Jam too. But he was also really into the scene around here, it was just like- This is amazing. And this must have been 94...

‍

John Shultz  30:36  

Sort of reminded me of Henry Rollins, a giant fucking burly..

‍

Jon Merithew  30:40  

Like a giant Henry Rollins. Yeah, ha ha, he was! He always looked like Hercules to me, you know...

‍

John Shultz  30:51  

Or like Harley from the Cromags with the big screen...

‍

Jon Merithew  30:54  

He kinda looked like you could dress him up in a Superman costume. Or he would just be like-

‍

John Shultz  30:58  

He was just a fucking beast. Nice guy, though.

‍

Jon Merithew  31:00  

Really nice guy. And he just really wanted to play music. And we sort of just connected. And he like, at the time, I think- I was wanting to do something heavier. And Fitz was just like, raging at that point, I think they'd signed to Mercury. And that was happening, so everyone was just like, Fitz, Fitz, Fitz, Fitz. And Fitz was playing nonstop and touring non stop, and they were just the tightest thing ever. And so we basically thought we want- let's be Fitz, with a with a lead singer. And so I was like, okay, but I can't, I'm not... I'm not Fitz, you know, like, so I just sort of developed this- I got into the D tuning a lot. Because I could do like, yeah, Drop D and so I was just doing these, like, [imitates riff]. You know, you can play all these great fast chords 

‍

John Shultz  with three fingers.

‍

Jon Merithew  31:53  And, and so we started writing stuff. But we got we had a drummer. I think his name was Corbin. And then James, I think was on bass. Or James. I can't remember it starts at the B maybe. Bowers, he was James... James Bowers? Anyway, they just were not quite what we were looking for. So I was just like, well, I know a guy who can play the drums. So we got Brad in there. And as soon as Brad got in there, me and him clicked, because we've been playing for years together in his room, you know, like at his dad's house, trying to write metal songs, but not really knowing how. But Brad could totally play ‘em. But I couldn't. I was just like, oh, this sounds like a blue song, dang it! So then we clicked and Brian was just like, yes. But James, and bless his heart. He was just like, “You know what, guys? I don't think I can keep up with this. You know, not to mention that I kind of have a job and a family. But you guys are like, I think you need somebody.” So that's when I was just like, I know guy from Pod. So that was how I called Ryan. Yeah. But

‍

John Shultz  33:07  

he just left death squad probably at that point, right?

‍

Jon Merithew  33:10  

Maybe. I think he was still trying to do Pod too in some kind of half assed way, because I quit pod because I was like, Oh, I gotta focus on The Noses. And then I realized I really wish The Noses were doing something heavier. And then I was like, Well, I can do this with One Ton. And I can be a part of the scene that I've always want to be a part of, which is funny, because in reflection, I was a part of the scene. Everybody who was here and going to shows and playing music, or not even playing music, but just going to shows was a part of that scene. And even though…  after this sort of scene explosion in Seattle, there was sort of a spotlight that was like, put on Seattle, and then that spotlight was like, Well, what's going on around here? And that spotlight gun kind of showing on this- our scene, And what filtered to the top because it was the most engaging part. And the most interesting and the most important-

John Shultz  The K Records…

Jon Merithew  Yeah, and the riot grrrl movement, even, you know, just sort of that-

‍

John Shultz  34:34  

K, Kill...

‍

Jon Merithew  34:36  

Exactly, but that's not the only part of the scene. You know, they didn't really talk about much else but, you know, in retrospect, that needed to happen. It was high time that that happened and I'm glad it did. But at the time, I think I was a little bit like, I'm left out. But you know, that scene was not for me.

‍

John Shultz  35:01  

So… after One Ton you started C Average, that was about 96, you said, right?

‍

Jon Merithew  35:40  

Yeah. 96-97. I think I quit The Noses in 96. And me and Brad had already started kind of playing. And by 97, we had settled on a name. We had our first set. That was post One Ton because I had quit One Ton. So that happened. We started One Ton, and I ended up quitting because I was like, The Noses need me or… I felt like I couldn't do both. And I wasn't really prepared to quit The Noses because it just meant a lot to me. And so I ended up teaching Jim Robinson, who was in Pig Stick, another great two piece- very influential on me. I ended up teaching him all the songs and he took over. And then they replaced Brad because no one can get along with him. I felt bad… But that's when they took off. And they toured with Unwound one time... Brad toured with KARP opening up for Unwound. And that's when that's when Unwound- or that's when KARP suddenly just became this force of nature. And it was just insane. Brad witnessed it on the road. And he came back and.. all he could talk about was KARP and how amazing Scott Jernigan was, and how amazing that band is… 

‍

John Shultz  Rest in peace. 

‍

Jon Merithew  Rest in peace. And so that was very influential on him. And it made me kind of start to look at KARP because The Noses played a show with KARP. And they sucked. But this was way back. We played at Timberline and we weren't in high school anymore, but they were in high school. And I think it was weird to me…

‍

John Shultz  Timberline? Because they went to Tumwater…

‍

Jon Merithew  they did, but we both played the show at Timberline. I don't know how we got this gig, but it was in that theater, and I really thought they were they were not great. And then, also same thing to Scott Jernigan was this kind of really skinny almost emaciated kid, you know- had just lost his his baby fat. He was probably 16 or something. And they were just a couple of- like three, just weirdos you know, in playing- really, really weird. It was punk. And it was metal. But it was just like, wow, this is great...

‍

John Shultz  38:26  

Melvins but not exactly… heavy?

‍

Jon Merithew  38:31  

But when I saw them open up for Fitz at the North Shore, And they still were sort of like, oh, okay, they're better than they were. But yeah, nothing compared to what they became. They're... just iconic. Gobsmacking, just like, how are you doing that? You know, it was insane. So Brad got to witness that and he sort of clued me in on that… And then they finally kicked him out. Then Jason Newstead I think took over on drums?

‍

John Shultz  [That was a bassist for Metallica]

‍

Jon Merithew  Ok, Jason Newfield? Somebody anyway. He was the drummer of Pig Stick. Who basically, Jim Robinson sort of like- c’mon. Then they did some more stuff and it was good. And [giggling at John Shultz’s rumbling tummy] you need some food!

‍

John Shultz  39:30  

No, I ate lunch. My stomach’s going, “Feed me more. Feed me more!” [laughing]

‍

Jon Merithew  39:38  

So, by 90 I think he was kicked out. Probably 96 or 95 or 96 Because I think I left in 94...

‍

John Shultz  39:53  

You grabbed him and formed C Average. “Cave rage...”

‍

Jon Merithew  39:59  

“Cave Rage,” as we became known as.

‍

John Shultz  40:05  

So at the beginning, it was just you and Brad.

‍

Jon Merithew  40:07  

Yeah. Because we knew we wanted to play and I just quit The Noses or I was thinking about quitting The Noses and I just wanted to have something ready to go. And Brad was taking me all these shows. We saw the Champs at the Red House. I think maybe KARP played that show. But I know this band called Regraped play there. They were from the East Coast, I think Raleigh, they had two bass players and a drummer and it was just awesome. And some of those folks, I think relocated to Portland, and became Lachrymator back in the day. Very- Champs were well known then, they're called the Fucking Champs now. But they were called the Champs before. But then there was a band called The Champs that do, I think, “Tequila.” Yeah, they have that song... But when I saw ‘em they were just the Champs. And that was insane… and that had Tim Green from Nation of Ulysses, which was a K band, or was it a Kill Rock Stars band?

‍

John Shultz  41:21  

One of those, yeah.

‍

Jon Merithew  41:22  

I don't know, maybe Kill Rock Stars. But they were a they were a DC band, I believe. And there was that whole punk connection between DC and Olympia, which is really cool. But I have no knowledge of it, I wasn't a part of that… I think Bratmobile and Bikini Kill both went over there and lived for a while and played shows and stuff. C Average ended up playing in DC maybe once or twice. But… that whole thing was what I saw from the outside and just like, was like, oh, that's that must be so cool. But you don't know until you're in it. Maybe it wasn't that cool. Maybe it was harder than I thought, you know. Because when I finally did sort of get signed- on Kill Rock Stars- it was sort of like oh, that's all it is. It's didn't feel any different. I didn't feel more or less accepted than I was before, and that was a big eye opener for me, it was like, well I guess this is when the real work begins. I wasn't really prepared for that.

‍

John Shultz  42:44  

Well it’s funny you know, you say that. Like oh, this scene that you saw and you wanted to be a part of and all that- as kind of an outsider who- not really an outsider but, I you know wrote for the Axis and that was you know, I was at all the shows, the whole thing- that was like late ‘96, so It was basically 97-98 when the when the mag was going. You guys, C Average was like the fucking pinnacle. You were you think of- this is what I saw. and a lot of what I was talking about, was C Average was like- you know, Fitz was kind of doing their own thing and Mikey had his problems with all that shit. Y’know, and the riot grrrls they were off they're already doing their own shit. C Average Was the fucking shit! C Average was like, that's Olympia’s fucking band, man. That is it. And I think about now it's like okay, what what were the great Olympia bands? I'm sure you had Bikini Kill and stuff and Fitz but fucking C Average man...

‍

Jon Merithew  43:53  

And KARP and that stuff, and Unwound, like the bands that were all sort of from here, went to high school here- because some of the people in Bikini Kill were from here, but some were not. And that's just, I mean that, if you move here then… you’re an Olympian.

‍

John Shultz  [mentions the Need] 

Two piece, just fuckin’ ferocious, right?

‍

Jon Merithew  44:20  

Oh, The Need, thank you for reminding me. That was another one that I was just like, Oh my god. Yes. Love them.

‍

John Shultz  44:22  

Did you happen to see- let's digress a bit. I'm not supposed to talk much but I'm gonna ask anyway… the show must have been 98… 97-98. What was the space? It was upstairs. Had a bunch of poles…

‍

Jon Merithew  Arrowspace. 

John Shultz  It was Arrowspace. I used to drink a lot, Jon. And I went up there I don't know if you were at that show. But I’d say Unwound headlined. It was like long hind legs. Bangs maybe? The need, bunny foot charm. It was fucking cool.

‍

Jon Merithew  Wow. I probably was at that show.  I smoked a lot of weed, though.

‍

John Shultz  It was really bizarre to me- we all did a lot of shit we probably shouldn’t have… first time I'd seen a lot of these bands that time. And we were there to see Unwound, which, you know, I've been on record to say I didn't get ‘em. I was like, meh. Yeah, you know, Bunny foot charm blew my fucking head off

‍

Jon Merithew  45:16  

They’re so rad. Gabe is such a great drummer. He does comedy now, right? Gabe Rutledge, I believe.

‍

John Shultz  I don’t know. He does comedy? They were fucking good. They were all really good! Yeah. And the Need fucking melted my brain. Crazy, right? Yeah, people stood up and, I don't know- Well, let me ask you this. Because you know, C Average on par with you know, KARP and all that... at that show, when Unwound- it'd be kind of sat around and kind of just watched it. When Unwound came on, everyone kind of stood up. But nobody fucking moved. They sat there and just kind of stared, studying. Like, kind of studied the band. Do you you know what the fuck you're doing? It was the weirdest thing to me. I was like, standing the back. Like, what's going on? Let's dance. Smash it up. That was really bizarre.

‍

Jon Merithew  46:03  

Yeah, it's kind of hard when you're a band like that, in a way because

‍

John Shultz  46:08  

you're getting the energy from the crowd.

‍

Jon Merithew  46:11  

Right, but it's cool in a way to be an intellectual band. You know what I'm saying?

‍

John Shultz  46:15  

Yeah, but were they? Were you guys?

‍

Jon Merithew  46:18  

I don't know. I don't know. But all I know, is that when KARP or the need, or bunny foot charm would play, you just have to move. You'd have to at least bang your head a little bit. And I feel like you know, maybe that some of that was going on with with Unwound.

‍

John Shultz  46:40  

Was that happening with you guys?

‍

Jon Merithew  46:41  

We had a little bit of both. We had some intellectual because we were like, Well, I see that you're doing a seven-eight time signature[laughing] like oh, you mean the one is like [imitates riff] because that's all I know. I don't know the numbers.

‍

John Shultz [laughing] Like, “what guage strings?” 

‍

Jon Merithew  I don't know. The ones that don't break, preferably?! 

‍

John Shultz  heavy ones.

‍

Jon Merithew  Yeah, the heaviest I can. But oh yeah. And you reminded me- another digression- Another band that I was in, the nervous system. I played bass in a band called the nervous system with a guy named Zack Carlson. He sang on one of the songs on our first single, really cool dude… But, yeah, the nervous system was trying to remember all the bands so it was like the Four Hands (imaginary), CAZH, The Noses, ONETON, Pod, Then C Average, then Nervous System. C Average with Eddie- featuring Eddie Vedder or Eddie Vedder featuring C Average, whichever you prefer. Let's see. Mosquito Hawk...

‍

John Shultz  48:07  

Which is great. I haven't listened to it now.

‍

Jon Merithew  48:10  

Thank you for that plug. Available on Spotify. Let's see. Oh, the Mona Reels, I was in the Mona Reels for a while- Peter David Connelly's band, really good pop, amazingly intellectual pop. But he's just… next time I see you, I'll try and run over his CD because it's something special, his newest one. I mean, and I have all of his CDs. And he started when he was in high school. But we were not in high school anymore. But he was always like, What is this guy? And then I got to be in his band. Anyway, went on tour with him down down the coast and Back. And that was really fun. But then he kind of changes it up. He just like okay, that was my band for this album. Here's another one. Here's another one. It's really cool, actually. And then I was in a band called SkepticTank for one show. We played with Paul plugins and Scott Taylor. Scott Taylor, the Hard Way. Yeah, cool dude. Really good singer and songwriter. 

‍

John Shultz: And this is all in the 2000s?

‍

Jon Merithew  This would have been Yeah, in the 2000s time. I think the Mona Reels and Skeptic Tank were, yeah- 2003, Perhaps 2004.

‍

John Shultz  49:35  

[dissapointed grunt] Well, this project ends at 2002. 

‍

Jon Merithew  Oh, it does? Very good.

‍

John Shultz  ‘80 to 2002 is kind of the the range of this project.

‍

Jon Merithew  49:43  

Okay. Well, then I won't mention the fact that I was in the Lincoln Elementary parents school band from about 2010 to twenty [????]. I was also in a band around that same time called the K-TELS and we just did school dances and-

‍

John Shultz- and covers... like it was a K-TEL records kind of-

‍

Jon Merithew Yes, It was really fun actually.

‍

John Shultz  50:07  

The Stroke by Billy Squier?

‍

Jon Merithew  50:09  

[laughing] No, but maybe we could have easily. But yeah, we played one wedding, and anyway… but yeah, Nervous System was in there. That was really the most punkest band I've ever been in.

‍

John Shultz  50:27  

Were you ever into punk?

‍

Jon Merithew  50:28  

I never was!

‍

John Shultz  50:29  

Okay. Interesting.

‍

Jon Merithew  50:31  

I mean, I've listened to a little bit to some Ramones songs. Right? The Clash? Are they punk?

‍

John Shultz  50:38  

Yeah, depends who you ask. I don't think so. The Ramones are all that punk.

‍

Jon Merithew  50:42  

Right. Sex Pistols?

‍

John Shultz  50:45  

Sex Pistols are shit in my opinion. 

‍

Jon Merithew  50:47  

Right, See? I mean, some of them. They just sound like an old rock and roll band to me. The Stooges, they’re not punk.

‍

John Shultz  50:54  

Well, they’re proto-punk. The Stooges, MC5.

‍

Jon Merithew  50:56  

Yeah, that stuff I dig.

‍

John Shultz  50:56  

I’m thinking like Dead Kennedys and Circle Jerks, Minor Threat that's kind of what I was thinking.

‍

Jon Merithew  51:03  

No, not really. The closest thing I think were the Violent Femmes. I liked that… they’re acoustic punk. 

‍

John Shultz  folk punk. 

‍

Jon Merithew  Exactly. So i gotta say No, I wasn't really into the punk scene, punk rock sound.

‍

John Shultz  51:21  

Which is odd because I always felt that just the stripped down nature of a lot of these bands we've been talking about- C Average for example, or Bunny Foot Charm, the Need- these two-pieces lend themselves to a punk ethos, right? Just raw, dirty.

‍

Jon Merithew  51:37  

So the ethos, however you wanna say it- I am into. But the sound of punk rock, which I think there's different things. There's the the ethics of punk, and then there's the music of punk. And I wasn't really into the music of punk. Dead Kennedys, I see right over there. I'm not really into ‘em, but I don't dislike them. I just haven't really heard ‘em. That's kind of the problem is, a lot of punk, I haven't heard. I think every time I hear a Fugazi song- are they punk?

‍

John Shultz  52:17  

I don't think- Minor Threat was, I think Fugazi, they were-

‍

Jon Merithew  52:21  

They were funk/punk. [laughing]

‍

John Shultz  52:25  

Because if somebody says, I've never heard punk, give me an album that applies as punk- Minor Threat, to me. They're just like the sound of punk

‍

Jon Merithew  52:33  

I don’t think I've ever heard it. 

‍

John Shultz  52:36  

They're great… there's nothing. And this might be the thing too, Jon, because you mentioned before, like when you were younger, you got to start out listening to Rush and the Who and Led Zeppelin, you already had that, you can play that. For example, when I started playing, I could play three chords fucking angry and fast. I didn't have to be- because I couldn't play like Randy Rhoads. I couldn't write like Van Halen-

‍

Jon Merithew  

Geezer Butler.

‍

John Shultz  

Yeah, or Tony Iommi a little bit, he wasn't that difficult. So I started playing guitar before bass. I said, “man, I can't do that shit…” y’know, I don't really want to put the time in. You know what? Minor Threat, Dead Kennedys- I can play this. Yeah. Maybe not Dead Kennedys. East Bay Ray’s like a surfer. He's highly underrated by the way. But yeah, I mean, old Germs and just like, fucking Pat Smear- Yeah, three chords loud and fast. Yeah, whatever I could play when I was fucked up was punk. I could think oh, now I can actually play music because I don't have to be a virtuoso, where you guys are already better than- far better than that. So you know what I mean? Maybe that's why I do remember some punk in C Average.

‍

Jon Merithew  53:49  

that's because Brad introduced me. I think we were still in high school… pretty sure he introduced me to DOA. Oh, yeah. And, and

‍

John Shultz  54:00  

“I don’t care what you say, fuck you.”

‍

Jon Merithew  54:02  

Exactly. And I kind of liked that and having learned how to play by listening to the Kinks, and the Yardbirds and some Who and Stones and Beatles. I could already play those DOA songs pretty easily. And I have to admit it was satisfying to be like, Oh, you mean this? And it's like Yeah, yeah. Also Surf Punks. Somebody ripped my stick.  [laughing] those were the two like, punk-- And then the Toy Dolls, which were just not really I mean, they were punk sounding. But I'm not sure about their ethics.

‍

John Shultz  54:49  

Right, right. Yeah. I don't know. I just guess there's a sound in Olympia, a sound like... KARP was punk, Weren't they?

‍

Jon Merithew  55:02  

Yeah, but see that's what quote unquote grunge sort of is, is punk.

‍

John Shultz  55:08  

Metal-y punk kind of.

‍

Jon Merithew  55:10  

With metal, pushed together.

‍

John Shultz  55:12  

Yeah. I talked to Mark Arm back with AXIS and I asked him, where’d the grunge style come from, was it kind of a perfect mashup of  metal and punk. And he said the problem with that is they were too dirty for the metal guys- like, think of Mudhoney and them- you know? But they weren't dirty enough for punk. You know, it's kind of weird. Then you’ve got Motorhead who- they were the epitome of metal/punk.

‍

Jon Merithew  55:43  

Yeah, they brought punk and metal together. Everybody could agree on them. And yet, they don't sound like a grunge band.

‍

John Shultz  55:51  

No. They don’t sound like grunge at all.

‍

Jon Merithew  55:53  

No.  They sound closer to a punk band than a lot of metal bands.

‍

Unknown Speaker  55:59  

weird Yeah,

‍

John Shultz  56:00  -

I think Olympia has got- I think may be right that whole-

‍

Jon Merithew  56:05  

are Bad Brains punk?

‍

John Shultz  56:07  

Yeah, they were considered punk. 

‍

Jon Merithew  They're rippin’. 

‍

John Shultz  Yeah, they were kinda like that SoCal ska almost, pre-that [So-Cal Ska]. They had reggae-ish..

‍

Jon Merithew  56:19  

See, they had a lot of different styles, influences.

‍

John Shultz  56:26  

HR now, he’s a straight up- he's not with the Bad Brains, He just does reggae.

‍

Jon Merithew  56:28  

Oh, Interesting. But they had punk and metal, you know, and jazz. That was all in there and funk, Big time. I think that's a healthy way. It just didn't work with The Noses. Because we were too. I don't know where we do.

‍

John Shultz  56:46  

what would you call it? What would you call C Average, more grungy?

‍

Jon Merithew  56:50  

I always called us garage prog rock. Because… I saw bands that were kind of coming around the scene. And they weren't necessarily Olympia bands, but they influenced the Olympia scene quite a bit because they played here a lot. One of those was the Champs. And what they had was, they were doing a lot of this mathy rock, you know, and don don caveat, Cavalera I think that was Ben. I don't know where they were from. But they had weird time signatures. And, and what was cool about the Fucking Champs, is that they had so much two guitar harmony, metal stuff going on. It was really cool. But it was very mathy. And it wasn't in your face, sort of like machismo, it was just like the guitar parts from those songs. So you could feel a little bit better about digging it. And also, the drummer kind of ended up being sort of like a jazz dude. Seems like, you know, although he that the drummer for the Fucking Champs is like, an accomplished guitar player. And was in a band called the Event which was in a mod band from... I think they were California in the late 80s, early 90s.

I feel like that's what we wanted… so Olympia has these heavy bands, and they're definitely, you know... but they don't have any heavy bands that have especially odd time signatures and weird like parts and changes. And they don't have any bands that have like, a weird, like, metal hair rock prog drummer with a sort of a blues guitar player as their guy, like a Tony Iommi. And that was what when I started listening to Black Sabbath, I was like, Tony.

‍

John Shultz  Which was all just blues. 

‍

Jon Merithew  Yeah, it is. But he just plays it in a way that I was like, I can do that, too. So, that's where C Average comes from. So I usually called us- because we're kind of a garage band, you could call us. I remember when we were doing our second record. I think… that guy named Wes recorded it. And I think he was in the Tacoma scene because we recorded at Uptone, which is Seaweed’s place and he would call us dance metal.  And I think he would call us gay metal every once in a while. 

‍

John Shultz  “Gay Metal??”

‍

Jon Merithew  Yeah. Yeah, I know. I was just like, that's pretty cool, actually, I’m into that. Sure. Although I don't know what you mean.

‍

John Shultz  1:00:20  

Erasure meets-...

‍

JbON MERITHEW  1:00:28  

[laughing] I’m not even sure what that means... Happy metal? but yeah, I always kind of stuck with prog,

‍

John Shultz  1:00:32  

...garage prog.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:00:35  

“Garage prog,” because I was like, That's close enough, you know? Because I mean, even when we try to get to our heaviest metal, it ends up sounding like, we can't get any heavier than Iron Maiden, which is not the heaviest metal band. And in fact, I don't even think they consider themselves a heavy metal band. Most of those bands don’t.

‍

John Shultz  1:00:56  

They’re a prog band now.

‍

Jon Merithew  They’re a rock band too… 

‍

John Shultz  1:00:58 

‍

Everybody I've talked to in this project so far mentions you. And like Eric Breding was saying, “the thing I like about John is when he plays, he's like, it's on a cliff, man. He's like, right there. But he never goes off. He just brings it back.” That's fucking right. So it's a little bit more cerebral than the... you know what I mean? 

‍

Jon Merithew  Yeah, that's cool. 

‍

John Shultz  Yeah, see, that's that's the gig. I mean, everyone I’ve talked to is like, fuckin’ Merithew, man, C Average- it's like you became that the head of... the leader of the scene, basically, at that point.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:01:41  

I had no idea.  It's weird, because the perception…

‍

John Shultz  Well, that's how I saw it.

‍

Really? I mean, that's heartwarming to be. But, but still don't, necessarily- That's such a weird thing. It's cool. And I'll have to maybe try and change my feeling on it.  But when you’re...

‍

John Shultz  Just don’t be a snotty asshole anymore, “you know who the fuck I am??” [laughing]

‍

Jon Merithew  Don't worry, I won't. But I didn't really feel that way. So that's an interesting thing. It's all about perception. You know, I always felt like other people were the head of the scene. And then by the time I guess we got to a point where we were at least on a similar level, the Eddie Vedder thing happened. And that was a really hard thing for me. I loved it. But I also didn't know-

‍

John Shultz  kind of mainstream. 

‍

Jon Merithew  I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do with it. How do you…  and then after that, we had- every time we went on a tour there were like 50 people there that were wondering if Eddie was going to show up. And that was a little bit-

‍

John Shultz  disconcerting. 

‍

Jon Merithew  Yeah, every show we’re just like, “So Eddie's not coming tonight. But if you want to stick around for us, you know, this isn't the same thing that you saw on YouTube,” or actually back then it wasn't on YouTube. But “[not] the same thing you heard about, you know, and not sure when we're going to be doing another show… Eddie usually calls us up about a week in advance, and we have time to practice and then, you know, we fly someplace and then it's bizarre. But it's really fun, but, but yeah, he's not coming tonight. Sorry.”

‍

John Shultz  1:03:34  

Do you think that was turning some people off? “Oh, fuckin’ hanging out with fucking Vedder, fucking sellout bullshit?” 

‍

Jon Merithew  1:03:42  

Well, that was one of those things. I remember a story that- It was hard because Brad, I think it was on the tour that Brad had played, or a show that Brad had played. And he saw KARP playing. I think it was in Seattle, and Eddie Vedder was in the audience. And KARP just laid into it and just was like, “corporate sellout in the audience tonight. Why are you here?” You know?

‍

John Shultz  I personally love that… 

‍

Jon Merithew  So it was our heroes, sort of- we knew how they felt about Eddie Vedder. And now there's no hiding it because it was in Rolling Stone. So we literally didn't know what to do. So I felt like my- what's the word I'm looking for? My strategy was to just sort of like, Alright, let's see what happens. And then it became the strategy became let's just lay low. And then every time Eddie would call, we would be like, yes, yes. Because that was really fun to do. 

‍

John Shultz  You got to do it. 

‍

Jon Merithew  We got to do it. Because what is it going to be this time? It's going to be amazing, but didn't know quite how to cull that fame into something that would help us eke out a career, let's just say, because that's what the whole goal becomes when you become a touring band. That's making records and touring. You're just like, Can I do this for a living? Usually not. You know, so. But it's okay to not. Because later in life, you look back and you're like, Oh, I did that. That was pretty awesome. I don't want my kids trying to do this. This is insane. They're gonna die. [laughing] Exactly. Because like you can't- I'm not letting you drive anywhere, let alone in a van. Down to California? Are you crazy? Over to New York? Oh, no.

‍

John Shultz  1:06:05  

So C Average has gone through some changes over the years. Your wife Olivia now sings in C Average whenever C Average is active, correct?

‍

Jon Merithew  1:06:19  

Yeah, that is correct. Yeah, finally decided to add a bass player. As one of the things Eddie was always just like, “why don’t you guys have a bass player?” It was like, Well, we did. But then he quit. And he was sort of our dream bass player. And then we've never really figured out another- we tried Tim, but his style just didn't go with our style. It although you would think it would, but it just didn't. And, but we did find somebody, John Boyce, who just was awesome. He was, you know, and he didn't know Brad well enough to hate him. [laughing] ...he came to practice, our first practice. And he knew like three or four. He had already figured it out. And these are songs that don't have basslines. And suddenly he came to practice, we played the songs, and they had basslines, I was like, I didn't know this had a baseline, he’d already written the basslines for two or three of the songs. And so I was just blown away and sold, you know, unfortunately, had a little bit of a- as so many of us do- problem with drugs and alcohol. He just didn't take care of himself. Like he should. And didn't have, you know-

‍

John Shultz  1:07:52  

That was the thing, too, right. Talk to a lot of guys, you know, the 90s about the scene, there was a lot of that. A lot of that. And we lost a bunch of ‘em because of that.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:08:05  

And we're losing even more now that we didn't lose. We thought we were gonna lose back then. Well, we didn't. But it turns out that that abuse that you had- self abuse- it accumulates and then your organs fail. And you're like, oh, no, I shouldn't-

‍

John Shultz  I shouldn't have done smack for ten years.

‍

Jon Merithew  Yeah, exactly. John Shultz  1:10:18  

So maybe it's too late for this project, but when did Olivia join the band?

‍

Jon Merithew  1:10:25  

It was. Okay, so we started playing with John Boyce as a three kind of a three piece. The idea was like, let's take it slow. We were a two piece… and me and Olivia were doing Mosquito Hawk. And I decided I basically wanted to get back into doing some C Average. So I was like, I'm gonna quit doing Mosquito Hawk. And basically everyone was like, okay, well, then we should just not have- there will be no Mosquito Hawk until we're all ready to come back and play which may happen.

‍

John Shultz  1:11:08  

And what year was this?

‍

Jon Merithew  1:11:09  

This was 2013. We started in 2010. So we were Mosquito Hawk for like, three years. And me and Brad had a couple of shows during that time. But we were just kind of laying low. We've never really stopped being C Average. We were just on hiatus, which is what we're on right now… So C Average is still C Average, just don't know what's gonna happen.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:14:20  

Yeah, we just don't know what's gonna happen. We will find something we might go back to being a two piece but I don't know. That was tough.  That was hard work.

‍

John Shultz  1:14:32  

[inaudible] Need somebody to pick up the slack, right?

‍

Jon Merithew  1:14:32  

It sounded so good with Brett- like, we recorded that record in 2018. And it’s just one of my favorites, you know? Do you have that one at all? Do you have a vinyl player? 

‍

John Shultz  Yeah. 

‍

Jon Merithew  I can get you one. And it's also on Spotify, I don’t know if you have that stuff. Yeah, all of our records are except for the single- I wish the single was on there. 

‍

John Shultz  1:14:53  

C Average only has three albums. That’s crazy, that’s like Boston, three albums in basically 30 years.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:14:57  

...30 years. I know it's almost 30 years. It'll be 30 years in 2027, I guess. Yeah. But she joined a little bit later. So we started playing as a three piece with John around 2014. And then we started playing with Olivia around 2015, pretty much, like as a band. 

‍

John Shultz  1:15:35  

And what was she in before that?

‍

Jon Merithew  1:15:38  

She was in Mosquito Hawk with me. And before that, she was in Rodeo Kill, and before and during that time, she was in an all female Black Sabbath tribute called Black Betty. 

‍

John Shultz  Nice. 

‍

Jon Merithew  Yeah, she was Ozzy. And she was also played when she was younger, as the Kelsey Love Experience. She changed her name to Olivia. Not sure exactly when, probably 2005 or so. And she was the Kelsey Love Experience. And then also, I don't know if you remember That Stupid Club. There's another Olympia band, kind of a noise band. Kelsey Love Experience and That Stupid Club combined for a couple of shows and called it That Stupid Kelsey Love Experience. Pretty funny. But yeah, so she joined and then we recorded. We went on tour with The Sword. So much fun. It was really fun to get back into it. That was kind of when I realized that John was really kind of having problems with addiction… I'm sitting there driving, and I didn't realize it until we were halfway through that the trip from one show to another, that he has like a bottle of whiskey he's hiding here. And he's like, pouring into this little- dude, that's open container. I can't get pulled over… [groans] uh oh. 

‍

John Shultz  It’s a bad scene.

‍

Jon Merithew  I mean, I know. I've been in a band, I know, we're partying. But at this point, none of us are partying except for you… we're in our 40s, we don't do this anymore. You know, I'm pushing 50 Yeah, I mean, I am over 50 now, but at that time, you know- it was really good tour and really fun. And then we came back and recorded the third album, and that came out in 2018. And, and then COVID hit, and we didn't- we were gonna go on a tour and stuff. And it's the story of C Average’s life, you know? We're just like, Okay, let's do this thing. I still kind of want to go to Europe, though. I've always wanted to go and play in Europe. And I think I will still hold on to that dream a little bit.

‍

John Shultz  1:18:16  

Yeah, Germany. Germans love that. They’re just all about metal and heavy music.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:18:22  

I think that it would be cool. And I think that'll be the main requirement of the new bass player will be that he'll have to have a passport that's up to date.

‍

John Shultz  1:18:43  

I've got one. 

‍

Jon Merithew  1:18:45  

Nice! There you go. That was my little way of asking. [laughing] Do you have a passport?

‍

John Shultz  Well, I appreciate it.

‍

Jon Merithew  Thank you. It was cool. This was fun. I really felt fortunate to be a part of the scene from those years, you know, and into the 90s. I mean, the mid 90s You had and into the late 90s even. It was a time- no matter what part of the scene you were a part of, because the scene was a giant scene, made up of little scenes and  some scenes got along with each other, some didn't even know about the other- but what happened was a general culture or and sort of an environment in which… it felt like you could do anything. There was rock operas happening, there was Transfused, the Need, you know? And Nomy Lamm and all the Gogos [Yoyo A Gogo, Homo A Gogo]…  looking back on it now. It felt like it was like the Summer of Love. It was like our 60s… there was so much going on, there were all these festivals. And that's what we had. We just didn't realize how awesome we had it until now. None of that stuff exists... nobody's doing any of that stuff.

‍

John Shultz  1:20:37  

But do you get out enough to see what's happening out there as far as any music? ...Do you think it’s coming back at all? Never to the extent that the 90’s were... it was a special time. But I mean, do you think the scene’s coming back at all?

‍

Jon Merithew  1:21:00  

I think so. I'd like to hope it is. I feel like I don't get out as much anymore. And I think that has something- Yeah, we're older. Number one, number two COVID sort of stopped everything. And I'm kind of slow to start up again, because I'm not sure- I want to make sure that it's safe for everybody and, and whatnot. But also, I'm just so used to isolating that being around people feels weird. But I am a bus driver. So I’m around...

‍

John Shultz  1:21:27  

[laughing] I’m been like that since the ‘90s.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:21:29  

I know, right? So what I do see, like, because I'll drive the night shift, and I'll drive from Olympia Transit Center back up the hill, and I go right past fourth Ave. And I've noticed that even like- certainly last summer. And if it's on a Saturday, or a Friday, like downtown's packed, right? Like right outside the Voyeur, which is sort of the new Voyeur. There are ton of kids. Ton of teenagers, ton of 20 year olds, ton of punks. And there something's going on there. And that's pretty killer to me.

‍

John Shultz  1:22:10  

It might be the only- that's the thing, too. I mean, back in the 90s there was lot more all ages clubs, Used to be. not as many around obviously, 

‍

Jon Merithew that would be helpful. I think the Voyeur is probably the only one, isn’t it?

‍

Jon Merithew  1:22:23  

yeah. And it's only halfway because it does serve booze. But you're right. That would be that would be kind of awesome.

‍

John Shultz  1:22:31  

You don't see any backstage shows anymore. 

‍

Jon Merithew  1:22:35  

We're playing one, with Christian Mistress the Thrones and Blues Faeries, my new band. That's right. I’ve got a band called Blues Faeries. Of course. That doesn't count because it's too early. Blues fairies.  April 8th. 

‍

John Shultz  1:22:53  

Good. I was hoping you weren’t gonna say the seventh because I gotta show the seventh down in Aberdeen.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:22:57  

Do you? I’m so glad. Because I don't want to compete with any other shows. Although down in Aberdeen is not bad.

‍

John Shultz  1:23:04  

Yeah, it's Aberdeen. All ages, matter of fact.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:23:10  

That’s cool. But I do feel like there is something going on and and the funny thing is, I'm not sure how much I want to be- maybe that's not the right thing to say- How much I need to be a part of it.

‍

John Shultz  1:23:26  

You don't know if you need to be a part of it.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:23:28  

Yeah, well, I certainly don't need to be a part of it because I'm an old fogey. But do I want to go down there and be a part of it? I kind of do, Yeah, but some part of me it's just like, No, you know What? You guys just do it. Or I want my kids to go down there and experience it, you know.

‍

John Shultz  1:23:49  

go down and play.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:23:51  

See, that's the thing, it'd be fun to play. I do want to get C Average back into it. I was listening to some old practice tapes this morning actually. And found found an old song that we never finished. But it's you know, John boyce, such a great bass player man. But yeah, maybe I’ll let you listen to a couple of it. But not right now. Because we're doing an interview.

‍

John Shultz  1:24:21  

Well, I think if C Average were gonna do a show, you could sell out the Capitol theater right now.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:24:28  

Oh, man, I dunno about that. Maybe wait about a year. We'll probably need about a year to get up to speed again. We haven't- we're getting soft.

‍

John Shultz  1:24:39  

Well, let us be an opening band for you. 

‍

Jon Merithew  

Oh, you know it.

‍

John Shultz 

Because you know what, I just make us cooler. We're just using your coolness.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:24:48  

I would love that, that would be such a great- you know, and you guys at the Capitol theater, especially full stage with a nice set of lights up there. Boy. That sounds so good.

‍

John Shultz  1:24:59  

It’d be fun. Okay now, we're getting off on a tangent, but thank you. I appreciate it.

‍

Jon Merithew  1:25:03  

Yeah, you're welcome, thank you, I appreciate the opportunity.

‍

John Shultz  1:25:07  

Whoever transcribes this is gonna hate me [LOL] but yeah, appreciate it and we'll look forward to more C Average.  Perfect.

‍

Jon Merithew  

Thank you.

‍