John Shultz  00:05

This is John Schultz for the Olympia Indie music project. I'm here with Ryan Van Bargen.

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Ryan Von Bargen  00:11

Von. Van is Dutch. Von is German.

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John Shultz  00:15

Sorry–of Fitz of Depression and Death Squad and Pod and CHIEF! and every other fucking band around.

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Ryan Von Bargen  00:22

Yeah, Young Lions, ONETON, Neural Wurst. A couple of them, yeah, Peace Party. Well, Rat Trap Ensemble was the name of the band at the time I played with them. That's pretty much it. Oh yeah, the Tide, too. I played with Brian Sparhawk and Stevie Benge there for like a year or something. That's when I started going to school in 2011. And it got crazy busy. I just couldn't do it. Yeah, too much at once. Prior obligations. I was playing with Fitz too. And I was just like, I just want to do that, and that's good enough. And it wasn't quite my cup of tea. You know, rock and roll wise. I like it a little bit rougher around the edges, you know? That's what it is.

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John Shultz  01:11

Let's go with the beginning: you were born in Olympia.

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Ryan Von Bargen  01:14

Yes. December 20, 1968. On the hill in the big brick building where all those apartments are now. You know, on 4th Ave.

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John Shultz  01:20

Yeah, the old St. Peter's [hospital].

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Ryan Von Bargen  01:22

Old St. Peter's, yeah. That’s it.

John Shultz  01:25

Yeah. All right. We'll just start there.

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Ryan Von Bargen  01:30

I went to kindergarten at South Bay Elementary, then John Rogers for first and second grade, Mountain View elementary for third grade, and then from there, Michael T. Simmons, that was when the family moved to Tumwater from Lacey. And then I went to Tumwater Middle School/Tumwater High School. I got into New Wave in the early ‘80s in middle school because of KYYX and also because of an older kid on the school bus, Jeff Moorehead, who after he moved away from the area, we would send cassette tapes back and forth in the mail of stuff recorded off the radio.  And then I discovered punk rock in high school. That was when I found my thing. And also just being opposite of what normal is right at that time. I think people don't understand the way old ladies have green hair and shit now was not a thing back then. Back then, people were looked down on if they had dyed hair and all that kind of stuff. Now you see grandmas and moms and random people with pretty colored hair.  It's really an ok thing now, and there’s mall stores like Hot Topic selling it to the masses. It just really changed how accessible the underworld is, you know? Everything changed after Nirvana. I believe that was part of that. It was a cultural catalyst that kind of broke that out for a lot of people. I mean, tattoos have always been a thing, piercings, all that shit, right? But I just think that it brought the underground to the masses in a way that they began to accept that kind of stuff because it was “cool” from then on. Even though a lot of people hearing Nirvana/grunge are blind as hell and don't even understand what Kurt was saying. It's not even that Kurt was thinking about something that important. They don't believe in his values, or like, they're still redneck dicks, but they just like the loud music too, y’know? That's the long and the short of my little life.

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John Shultz: You started playing bass in 1987? 

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Ryan Von Bargen

Yeah, yeah. At Ted Motz’s, you know, Ted Pinero.  When Nazi Boy Scouts were jamming in his bedroom.  Man, and the thing that really turned me on besides playing that heavy ass Hondo bass I was telling you about was listening to those dudes tune up and just hearing and feeling that. You know, when you're in a room, it’s loud, and the guitar is tuned with the bass. I just love it. I had never heard anything like that before. The only concert I'd ever been to before that was going to St. Martin’s to see Up With People, that's so different.  Yeah, they went out into the crowd. I was terrified of that shit. Little kid me didn't want anybody coming up and making me part of the show. They would grab people and dance with them and have them stand up. I’m like ahhh don't do that to me. They didn't. Yay. Anyway man,  I'm hearing them tune and it's like wow, this feels cool. It was the beginning of the friendship with those people, like I told you how I met Ted in high school on the first day of my freshman year at Tumwater. Just seeing those punk rock dudes and being like wow! They were accepting, nice people and we spent much time with them in the hallway at their locker around a little boombox and listening to Sex Pistols and stuff. Them letting me borrow tapes was so cool. Also being late to class because of those guys and learning about espresso being good.  You know, going to the Smithfield to meet. Then go hang out and skate with Ted downtown. Skateboarding was a big part of that whole thing for me too, you know, but uh, yeah, that was kind of the beginning of all that, and then because of Ted. Like just when seeing bands like No Problem. And Nathan was one of my bass guys at the time. I just love his bass playing. I loved No Problem as an instrumental band. And then we, Fitz, played with them when Barb Warr sang with them, they were so great. Just seeing local bands and being amped on the small living rooms and kitchens and all that stuff. Yeah, man, that's where that's where it started for me. And just loving it, and then just playing and continuing to love it.

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John Shultz  05:27

So you think that at least for me, like when I figured out that I didn't have to be a virtuoso to play and play an instrument? Yeah, because you know, Led Zeppelin and all that shit. Yeah, there's no fucking way I was ever going to do that. Right and once I figured that, you know, you hear the Dead Kennedys? Yeah, that's fucking dirty. I can do that shit. Is that kind of what made you think well, I can do this?

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Ryan Von Bargen  05:53

As I said earlier, I just wanted to be the best that I could be at that instrument, you know? And because of the new wave sort of thing, I loved this band that was called Shriekback. Pretty simple, spacey, and weird, kind of like the Viagra Boys, but in its own time, and it has that darkness and depth in lyrical content. But I just always wanted to be an awesome bass player and just be the best that I could be. You know I was lucky. I got to play with Craig and I got to play with Jerry. I got lucky. And Miles Vedder in Pod you know? He was in Pod and also in Creep for a while when they went on tour and stuff. Anyway. yeah, that was lucky being able to play with rad dudes like that, and getting to play with the drummer  in that band Rat Trap Ensemble, you know, Peace Party. That drummer Max Evans, like he had played with General Public. 

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John Shultz  06:54

And yeah, you know, Max. Yeah. He played with a couple buddies of mine. Andy and all those guys. They practice in my basement. Oh, wow. Okay, man.

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Ryan Von Bargen  07:03

He is a cool dude. Yeah, I haven't seen him for years. He was a commercial carpenter you know, he was a bit older, too yeah, he was in his 50s when we were doing it, you know, and we practiced at the Mushroom house at that time, so that was like 1994. Also, I played with Death Squad, pod, and Fitz of Depression at the same time for a little while. Also I kind of filled in or something because Justin had quit Fitz, and before Brian started playing with them, you know? 

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John Shultz What's that about?

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Ryan Von Bargen: Oh, that was Fitz of Depression. Yeah. At that time, but yeah, and then Peace Party because… there's only so many Fridays and Saturdays in a year, people getting bitter about like, oh, we wanted to play this show, but I gotta show with like, two other cool bandss or whatever. Yeah, playing with Jared is always awesome because… I mean, the show’s on a weekend, not insanely uncommon. I mean, on a day like on a Saturday, like early Saturday then come back to Olympia or something we did that we played out and like one time did that too, where we played out in Aberdeen and then came back and played parties at the at the skateboard ramp that was out on Trosper you know, Brett Shrivers [of Splat], Shriver and those guys… Chris Slotnick. 

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John Shultz  08:26

What was uh, what was the first band you were in? Young Lions? 

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Ryan Von Bargen  08:27

Yeah, Young Lions. Yeah, I was a senior in high school then. It was so different because I started playing with them in the summer of 87-ish and for some reason, I was compelled to graduate high school. To walk at graduation I had to come back for one more extra Fall trimester after that summer. I lived on my own at that time.  I lived on the West side, kind of right behind where the old Rainy Day used to be, kind of where Basil Leaf is.  You know where number six is?  You know that long house behind the back of that dog grooming place?

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John Shultz  09:08

Jello Biafra lived there in ‘84.

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Ryan Von Bargen  09:09

Nice, right? Yeah, Kevin Schultz lived in the same one before I did. Number six. He worked at Rainy Day. He was that long haired hippie fella, and he was in Mudslide.

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John Shultz  09:23

Drummer.

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Ryan Von Bargen  09:24

Drummer. yeah.

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John Shultz  09:35

People always ask me “Are you related to Kevin Schultz?” No.

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Ryan Von Bargen  09:38

no. I haven't seen that fella for years. I don't even know if he's still alive, man. Yeah, because like a lot of our dudes, they played rough and hard, you know?

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John Shultz  09:47

losing them dry. Yeah. Young Lions go.

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Ryan Von Bargen  09:52

We played together for like three years, but we only played like three shows. The first show that we ever played was at Reko Muse. With a band called Monkey Business. And then we played, you know, we had this house where we built a ramp at, the Boston Harbor house.  Out there at 5541 Boston Harbor. Yeah, we played with Fitz out there a couple of times. Those were just amazing parties.  Playing in the living rooms, so many people showing up.  That or the Mushroom House, really, you know, maybe you've gone to some of those parties? But we threw some decent parties, you know, back in the day.

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John Shultz  10:27

So I've forgotten a lot of I know, I know, a lot of remember a lot of those house parties. Oh, man,

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Ryan Von Bargen  10:32

And they were everywhere, you know? Gosh, they were just so cool. The vibe of how you just show up and everybody's nice. And then the band starts playing in the living room. Sometimes the cops show up, and sometimes they don't. It was a weird how that worked. Yeah.

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John Shultz  10:48

When did you start playing with Fitz?

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Ryan Von Bargen  10:51

Fitz? It was like late 90 and into 91. I played with them for almost two years. 

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John Shultz  11:00

Did you know Mikey in high school?

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Ryan Von Bargen  11:01

Mikey, I think he might have gone to Tumwater for a minute, but not very long. That was before when I started playing with Fitz.  Just the one tour that I did with them where we went and played in Tucson with the Melvins. And then in 91 we played with Nirvana in Los Angeles because the van broke down. And yeah, that was that first one. And then we also did like another West Coast or two over my  20 years with them.  That was fun doing that stuff, you know, Stepping over sleeping punk rock dudes in the mornings. I wake up early, you know? So yeah, I'm gonna get my coffee you ride my skateboard, having to go call unemployment, find a payphone and dialing in for the week. So the money be in the bank. You know, my check could be there. Dude, when I went on that tour with Fitz that we played with the builders in the first show was in Tucson. This was ‘91, ‘90. Like I was working at Budd Bay Cafe at the time, I took my paycheck. I didn't pay my rent. And we went on that tour. And of course, I come back and I'm kicked out of my little place which is you know, where that little community garden is over there on Division and Harrison there's the park and there's that little tiny house there. I lived in that little tiny house. Yeah, to get gold. Yeah, gold plates for a while. Okay. Oh, wow. Really? Yeah. Yeah. No, I was 250 bucks a month. That was and that's where I lived.

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John Shultz  12:29

They still had the big fucking building…

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Ryan Von Bargen  12:33

Yeah, the Treasure Chest. And I was still there when it caught fire and all that. Remember that? But yeah, that was… 30 years ago, or 32. Yeah. Funny how time flies along.

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John Shultz  12:52

So why'd you leave Fitz?

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Ryan Von Bargen  12:54

Mikey and I have a brotherly relationship, and always have.  And he was just kind of weird to me sometimes. So he always has kind of had this controlling kind of thing. You know, fine. It was his band. But I felt like I wanted to play alongside him in Olympia, not like against, with him. And it was before Fitz was cool and on K and all this kind of stuff. It was good. Brian started playing with him. And they did fine. You know. And then, yeah, I started playing with Pod right after that, for like three years, you know, we went through a couple of different guitar players. And first it was Myles and myself and Mike Wilson. And this guy Guile and I can't remember guy's last name. We had to get rid of Guile. And that was just the three of us it was always instrumental. And then Mike ended up quitting. And then it was John Merrithew. That played with us and that was awesome was the best and we went up recorded at Avast because I've known Stuart for years through another friend, which is nice to have that through. Not through music even it was just through another kind of thing. But yeah, so we got this sweet $250 a day deal. Avast… up in Wallingford in Seattle. Soundgarden used to lock his studio out and you know Stewart Holliman? He worked with a bunch of people and he was Soundgarden’s audio-on-the-road dude, their sound guy, and went to Europe and all these places with them all over the country. 

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John Shultz

Your engineer was Adam Casper. Right? 

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Ryan Von Bargen

That may be, I don't know.

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John Shultz

He grew up in town here.

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Ryan Von Bargen

I could believe that man… Stuart kind of did this stuff here… when they were practicing and stuff. I don't know. Because Unwound recorded there. Fitz recorded at Avast- there's tons of stuff like this still there. He's not at that location. But he still has a studio up in Seattle. You know, the last time I saw him was when we played with MC 50. Which was amazing because I had grown some really good weed. And I saw him in the crowd. And I had on my pocket and I will come up to him and they can smell it. And he was like, “I could smell that when you walked up here!”  I said,  “Yes, I've got this for you, it’s nice to see you, Stuart.” It was really nice to see him and I hadn't seen him for years. And yeah, there was a guy, George, that was a drummer- or he's a drummer guitar player. I can't remember his last name, but he was in one of the bands that's on here. But yeah, he was with Stuart and those guys and Damon who played in Treehouse… I can't think what his last name is.

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John Shultz  15:52

Nathan [Nathan Paull] would know.

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Ryan Von Bargen  15:53

would? Yeah, even Yeah, cuz those guys were more peers. And they kind of like, you know, Donna Biddle and Jim Kendall, who was in Young Lions... he was in other bands on here that Donna played with, and [they] were kind of their crew… I'd say more of the early punk rockers, ‘83 or ‘82, of Olympia, were part of that whole amazing thing. And Evergreen brought all that stuff together. That's what I've always thought… I worked at Earth Magic downtown for like nine years, when it was on Fourth Avenue. I always looked forward to when the new people would come in, in the summer and the fall, because it was you know, and then just the music like… Life of Riley, Telefunken… Pod and then playing with ONETON, you know… that was ‘96, ‘97, just before Death Squad. I’d gone on some tours with- and that was the cool thing about Vern, and the dudes from KARP… Vern Rumsey, Chris Smith and Jared Warren and Scotty Jernigan. Those guys would come to see Pod play, because I used to put on shows at the Capitol Theater in the Backstage. Many, many shows. We could say it's a faceted music scene and Olympia for sure, and how some of those facets didn't quite mix together. But without putting on shows there, Pod wouldn't have played shows. And I also had Fitz play with Pod, you know, cuz they’re just buddies and, you know, playing with Unwound or whatever. But Vern was always cool. That's why he ended up taking us one time on tour, because he liked the band. And he's like, “You guys are cool. You should come with us and go do that.” 

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John Shultz  18:21

Who was in One Ton?

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Ryan Von Bargen  18:24

Well, first it was Brian Alexander, Brad Balsley, Jon Merithew and myself. And then Brad and John left, but not quite at the same time. But Brad left and we got Jason Newfield. And Jason Newfield played with Pig Stick. Remember Pig Stick? I love it because all these bands that weren't all the “label bands” in Olympia. They're all the other bands that were playing shows around here, and they were by no means “B” bands, you know? They were just as fucking rockin’ and tough as the other bands, you know. Obviously some bands like Fitz and Death Squad and us, because I was with them when they got together. They did something- they laid shit down that was tight and pro, you know. And some of the bands did that but… [what] if they would have kept it up, you know?

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John Shultz  19:26

Yeah. The K bands and all those other bands that maybe weren't quite as popular.... Did you feel a divide between- like “the fucking K bands are too cool,” that kind of shit?

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Ryan Von Bargen  19:44

It was kind of a divide, there was some of that, but it's more like not feeling super welcome at that shit. And also not necessarily that, as much as “that is not my cup of tea.” Some of the music was, like we kind of were talking about earlier, some of the musicianship is fine. We just had a different sensibility about how our instruments were going to be played, and how we accept what we hear as tight and good. I think some of these other people were just like, “Oh, that's good. This is great. This is what they're doing,“ you know, and so they accept it, and they were all down with it. And because a lot of it, they looked the same. It was very comfortable. I think for a lot of those people,  a lot of us fuckers were scary to them. Like, Jerry and the rest of us, like Matt Harrington. That's the thing about us being born here. And other bands like, you know, that's another thing that fucking bugged me about K bands. Sorry, but all these “Oh, we’re from Olympia.” No you're not. I hated that. And I also hated when bands like Pod that I played with “Oh, we're from Seattle.” No, we're not. We're from Olympia. Fuck all that like trying to, you know, sort of geographically coordinate with what's well known and grunge. Fuck all that shit. Like, be from where you're from. I saw some of that shit like Sleater-Kinney and other bands that came here. Like, great. You came here. And you did that, and I guess you can technically say you're from Olympia, but are ya?  I don't know. But that doesn't really matter here-or-there wise. But we're pretty rare.

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John Shultz  21:21

Born and raised. I mean, yeah, we're a rare breed to meet, really.

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Ryan Von Bargen  21:27

Yeah, especially being a part of a counterculture. And it's funny how a lot of the Evergreen counter cultural influence is definitely big in Olympia and created the music scene here, right? Calvin went to Evergreen and all his education… but a lot of those people got in and got the fuck out, you know? But I really value what that revolving door of human beings brought in- the cool people you'd meet and weird shit they did and brought to the table here, as far as all that. But I think we existed outside of it. We got to play so many cool parties, like out of Evergreen and all the bands. You know. It was pretty cool. Death Squad, I didn't do many house parties with them because they were kind of such an established  metal band. 

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John Shultz

What year’d you join Death Squad? 

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Ryan Von Bargen

I'd say about ‘97 into ‘98.

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John Shultz  22:28

Were you into metal? 

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Ryan Von Bargen  22:30

No, man. I remember too, because I was buddies with Brian, and I was friends with Eric because of hanging out with Ted and you know, pot smoking and just being part of the music thing and just being buddies. I wasn't super friends with Tom Kaiser… Eric Pugh and I used to go hang out, we hung out this guy Randy Rice's house, that was you know, a skateboarding friend… hanging out and just smoking weed and playing video games, just being young people just hanging out at some dudes house, right. But I remember the day that Eric was like, “Hey, would you be into playing with Death Squad?” I was like, “fuck yeah,” cuz I remember trying to learn those songs on my own. And I could. I just was like, Brian is a fucking beat-ass bass player, man.  On that stuff… when you listen to that shit it sounds tiring, like “is that even possible?” And he's like he's picking that shit. It's like, How in the fuck? I tried to play that stuff on my own. But I remember when I lived at the Mushroom House, and Eric was like- before the first practice- ”Dude, it's always 4, 8, 16. Don't sweat it man. It's always the same.” And he was super patient, showing me how to play. I got a song a day for like 10 days. And then rock and roll. Death Squad. It was awesome. It was cool to me, it really showed me as a player too that I can play anything, you just you gotta apply and practice and practice. And I did.  I practiced the shit out of that, but it's so funny- even now. Because I don't remember the songs… some of them I do, but it's like to pick them out again, It's like “How does that song go? Can that be done?

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John Shultz  24:15

Right right. Do you think punk was the main [scene that] was happening Olympia? There wasn't a whole lot of metal bands back then around here. There were a few ...

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Ryan Von Bargen  24:30

Yeah… then there was the “blurry lines” bands like Splat and Bly’s Jinx, which was Eric Breding’s thing before it turned into Simple Ritual.  And so bands like playing at the Surf Club, Vortex… And that is not to be confused with Vertigo which was Tom Kaiser’s space. To me, they were kind of “metally” bands, but then they kind of were, you know, because grunge was going on. And that's even before- and it wasn't we didn't really have that around here- but that whole Funky Monkey rock thing that happened. Maybe some kids did that shit but… they were probably younger, from somewhere else. That's just not what I feel like I experienced around here. But that punk sensibility? I just thought about it as rock and roll. Because to me, punk rock is just trying to make music that's outside of the box. It's not fucking wearing Hot Topic clothes or having a mohawk. That shit to me is like being a greaser like, if you're gonna look like a London punk in ‘84… people who still do that, bless ya. But to me, it’s like being a greaser… When I was talking about my struggles with “do I even [want to] play, do I want to this?” When I was 20, I said, “I'm going to do this forever. I'm always going to be this way.” That’s a fucking mistake. You're not always going to be this one way or another. It's okay to be like, “Well, I'm always gonna have liberal values.” like you don't have to fuck other people over to survive, y’know, you don't don't steal, lie to people, that shit... And that’s punk rock, more than what you're wearing. And trying to have an open mind to some people, even though they're fucking crazy. And I think that's one thing that made all of us have that sensibility. So, open mindedness, pretty much. And then I can think that [some might say] “It doesn't sound like you're very open minded about the K records bands,” or whatever- well, also, they weren't very inclusive. So I don't really give a shit, as someone who's local.  You know, I even approached one of these people one time, I was like, “Hey, man, it'd be cool to play.”  and he was like [dismissively] “yeah, whatever.” They’d kind of choose their own, you know? And that's fine with me. And that's why I always appreciated Vern and these other people. They didn't have that pretentious thing… like I told you with the Fitz record… Calvin ghosted me on that. “We're gonna put this out,” and then we e-mail back and forth and it got to the phone call and we were gonna do it. He was gonna do it. And then he never got a hold of me. I'm like, fuck it. I saved that money to do this, so I did it. And I'm thankful I did because it was a crazy amount of work. I'm glad that when Jerry and I went down to Cascade Record Pressing in Portland and seeing that cart full of records. “My god, I'm glad it's not 5000 records. I don't know what I would do. Even one thousand. I did 500. 300 at one color- it's 548 actually because they did a little extra of the run but you know, there's two different colors. But yeah, that's all they did. It's all I can handle. Making sure the orders went out- even made some mistakes- because some, like a wife would order one, and a husband would order one to the same address, and… it was just a lot of administration to have to stay on top of and I can see why Calvin had people. You know, upstairs, when they were above Chinatown [cafe], I remember I’d go visit Mikey when he lived up there because I played in the band at the time. Seeing how he had shelves and rooms with those boxes like I have at my place. But you’d need help, because K was busy at that time, super on fire, selling their shit all over the place. So you’d need people for packing records and sending all those similar records off to places all over the planet, like they did. I'm bummed that we didn't get- I was out of Fitz though. So I didn't get to go to England or Japan or do that kind of shit. Would have been cool, you know, but whatever. That's the other thing- you can do that if you want, it's just a matter of buckling down saying ”This is what I'm going to do.” Or- not buckling down, but falling in love with the process,  and sitting down and taking the time to do it…

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John Shultz

And sacrificing.

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Ryan Von Bargen 

Yeah, touring bands… skinny, fucking grubby- that’s because it's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll, man. No fucking shit… Mikey wouldn't do a fucking two week tour. “I don't want to do that, we gotta go out for months.” One of them I didn't go on, where Tony Slug played, some guy, a bass player dude, played with other bands. I don't know, I'm not that familiar with it. But the tour they went on where they got to San Diego and the guy’s like, “Oh, is that tonight?” And it's like, that's the kind of shit like, if this band is that big, that's not what should be happening on the fucking tours, and I’m not goin’ on ‘em. I'm not gonna go play to no one in Roseville, California- although it was one of the best, we played so well. You know who Mike Zeigler is? You've probably heard of him… he lived in LA for a long time, and he does lots of recordings of bands. So, he's got a crazy archive of like Melvins, Nirvana… And I think he's like one of the main Nirvana archivists for audio.

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John Shultz  30:37

Bootleg stuff. 

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Ryan Von Bargen  30:39

Yeah, tons of it. You know, tape trading used to be a thing back in the day, right? Well, these dudes [would] actually do that shit with audio all the time. But yeah, Mike was our driver. And we played in Roseville, California, but we showed up at this place. And it was just cool. It's cool hanging out with Mikey and Jerry because they're your brothers or your buddies. So this is like in the 2000s, we showed up to this place. There's one woman that showed up from like Sacramento or San Francisco, and poor Mike, he was going to score that night, like they were having a great time and vibing. And we're like, “We're heading north. Sorry, man.” I wish we could have stayed just for him. But we played to no one. It was a cool little bar, and the room like that we played in had a wood floor and it sounded so cool, man. It was so rad. And nobody was there. Nobody knew, but it sounded so good. And it's like a train town. Roseville is North West of Sacramento by some amount of miles, you know, and used to be a train hub town. But anyway, that was that for the Fitz, and then you know, one turn and then Chief was like, after like, that was in the early 2000s. A friend of ours, Sarah Moore-Sarah Malloy now- she got Jerry and Mike together and then Mike Esparza… Sarah was like, “Oh, you should jam with these guys.” And I remember going over to Mike's house and starting that. That's how Chief started [as a] three piece, and then Eric Pugh started playing with us. And it was awesome. And we played together for six years. We've played so much. It was awesome. Because [of] Jared’s super work ethic.

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John Shultz  32:43

That was 2000s? I felt it was like ‘98-‘99 I remember seeing Chief flyers at the Eastside. 

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Ryan Von Bargen  33:02

Yeah, that's the start of it. It was like six years and then we went into the 2000s, like 2004-2005. And then I started playing with Fitz again, pretty much I played with Fitz after that… like I played and then didn't, then every time Brian would quit the band, Mikey’d give me a call and I'd be back on. And I'm thankful for Brian because every time he quit Fitz he’d sell me some of his gear, and he had fucking sweet Mesa gear, you know, so I got some sweet stuff from him.  He was probably having similar issues- they argued about different shit, but they had headstrong issues with Mike you know, cuz it's a brotherhood and some brothers are kind of dicks. And I know I'm probably one of them. I think I might be not very self aware sometimes, and I'm sure not always a perfect, good guy, you know. Clearly. That's kind of how that all worked out. I played with Fitz up until Mikey passed and like the last show. Want to say the last year wasn't the last show we played wasn't MC 50, which was awesome. Because I hadn't played the Showbox. Like, you know, I would take bus trips up there. Did you ever do any of those bus trips with Dirty Birds or anything like that?

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John Shultz  34:27

No, I wouldn't know I never did a bus trip with Dirty Birds. I went to Showbox a few times.

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Ryan Von Bargen  34:31

Those were fun. Oh, God it sure was a party bus. It was good times, man. But I think the last one we played, and I'm glad we got to play there, was the Rhythm and Rye where the Stuntmen played. And we got up and played on the Stuntmen’s gear. That must have been 2018 Yeah. 

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John Shultz

Mike passed away in 2019? 

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Ryan Von Bargen

Yeah, man. He's lucky, dude. He didn't get to- Trump was president when he was in so he got to see the beginning of all this, you know, the fucking “re-embiggening” of the racist bullshit culture. But he didn't have to see the pandemic, man… didn't have to live through all that. Not that I think it would’ve affected him very much, because it was not like he had some J-O-B that he didn't have to go to, you know, but yeah, he didn't have to fucking endure all that. 

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John Shultz  35:33

Do we want to talk about the other problems with the scene? Drugs and all that kind of stuff…

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Ryan Von Bargen  35:43

Yeah, that was a big thing for some people I know. 

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John Shultz  35:46

It was more widespread than we think. 

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Ryan Von Bargen  35:49

Yeah, and then heroin was a big thing, I think, for those people and the really cool kid crowd.

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John Shultz  35:54

Back in the ‘80s, Nathan [Paull] was talking about it…

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Ryan Von Bargen  35:57

And that killed a bunch of those people to like, you know, Ian McKinnon died from heroin. And there was other people Jim Swindle [sp?]. Like they got out of the orbit of it. And they did it, and they're living a good life now. 

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John Shultz

Chris Pugh, same thing. 

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Ryan Von Bargen

Yeah, he did, and Danny Kelly. And I think Colin too, like they were able to get out of that shit. And fuck, I'm always amazed when I see Danny and Colin Meek. [sp?] But they are so thin and healthy looking… I weigh as much as both of those guys. And y’know, there’s other- I don't want to name names, but there's a lot of these fucking people that had early problems, you know, and like Vern's issue with alcohol is no secret. You know, Mikey's heroin thing, and it killed him. And that's with all honesty, because that's the thing, if we can't talk about what took these strong, beautiful people down, we can't fucking move on. Right? Like, and you can't just… “They had heart problems, or they just died in their sleep” bullshit, you know what I mean? There's like, real things. So hopefully this is like a healing thing so people can be more- not just compassionate about it, but more honest about it. So more people can face it and deal with it. But yeah, that was a big thing. Then again… we all dabbled and partied hard. And I did my shit for years… but it depends on who you're hanging out with, man. I've done everything, I've tried them all, but it's like I respected the power of some narcotics to the point of where you just don't go back and keep doing that shit. Or some stuff is so powerful, it's like I don't want to be fucking awake for four days, that's bullshit. There's nothing for me with a four day run of life, fuck that. But it was a thing and it affected a lot of people, obviously. But just like any rock'n'roll story, it's cool how it's like a fractal, right? Olympia is little microcosm of rock and roll that had the same problems that fucking Aerosmith does, you know what I mean? 

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John Shultz

Or the L.A. scene.

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Ryan Von Bargen

Yeah, the one thing like I really love about how Olympia was, especially in the 80s, and all those punk rock shows- way more house parties than- like, I only went to like one or two Tropicana shows, you know… like I said, I was a nice little kid. I was a teenager. Although my cousin, she got to go to a bunch of them and I love it… everybody was so nice. If you fell down, they’d pick you up. There's no reason to be throwing elbows… most people were really respectful, and it was an up-and-down [movement] thing. You know Ian MacKaye, you've seen Fugazi in Oly, right? And you've seen him bitch at the crowd, “Up and down, not side to side, please.” The one thing I never agreed with him on is “Be quiet and listen to me.” That's so funny. Like, dude, I know, people are just out having fun, man! I remember… seeing them out at Evergreen, it was the basement, A-Dorm, it was fucking incredible. Dude, when Brandon sat down behind the drums the first time… it was gonna be good. You could tell it was gonna be good when his set [had]  just a little hi-hat. 

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John Shultz

Do you know who they played with?

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Ryan Von Bargen

I want to say that was Danger Mouse… Green Eggs and Ham was the other band… I love that more of the local types or whatever were getting to play, and I'm sure K bands got to go out there and play Evergreen, too, but playing the parties… because Super Saturday was graduation, but playing out at the building out by the soccer field, that octagonal like deck, you know… Pod played a couple of those, and when you could have beer and bands and Evergreen, it was the best. Everybody was reasonably well behaved, and no fights. It was just a wholesome good underage drinking time… I loved seeing the faces of so many people that I can totally name, just seeing everybody right there smiling and fucking enjoying each other's company. And some of those people playing fucking security for some of the assholes. And I love that, that that feeling of community and camaraderie.

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John Shultz  41:47

Do you think house parties led to that more than any of the big club shows?

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Ryan Von Bargen  41:56

I think it was just part of it, right? And if people behave themselves, it shows. Or not, you know, but I think parties obviously have more of a tendency for somebody to be a fucking idiot, cuz they’re drinking and there's… no set up environment for that kind of shit. Right? We played with Green Day at the mods. That's the first time I met Kurt and Dave out here… it was like, Unwound and KARP and Neurosis at the Mushroom House. 

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John Shultz  42:31

Yeah. I remember that I didn't get to go, too because I was like, “Neurosis? Fuck.”

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Ryan Von Bargen  42:35

Yeah, it was great. It was fucking cool. I played with L7, they were great. And I played with Fugazi. I'd let Joe [Lally] use my bass stuff at one of the shows out at one of the Grange Halls out in Steamboat [Steamboat Island]... Rignall Hall… that's the same one I think where the Melvins played with Nirvana and Beat Happening. It’s small too. Fuck, it was so good. Now that was one of the first times I'd seen the Melvins and I'd never ever heard music so powerful, loud and slow and precisely tight. I mean, fuck, dude. Dale Crover, like he commands your heartbeat. You just wait, “thwack!”  “Yeah! Yes, thank you for hitting that.” I love that shit. And I still I will always go see the Melvins to this day, and also to go drop a lot of money on one of the records. I love how they get it, like that's what was one of my inspirations for the fifth record when I did it. When Melvins put out a record now there’s stuff in it, or it's pretty, or there's something special about it. ‘Cause that shit it special, it's cool to look at it and space out and be like “Oh shit, the records already over,” flip it, then you're like “whoa, cool.” That's why I did that collage in there too because it was just something you could just space out on… It's cool to see Unwound playing again. That's great. Too bad it's expensive to go to their one of shows. That band’s popularity was ruminating out there because people really enjoyed Unwound. You know, that was crazy. Because we one time when we went on tour, we hooked up with them in,I think Green Bay, Wisconsin. And then we played in St. Cloud, and that's in Minnesota. And then we went and played in Ontario, in Toronto, Quebec, and Montreal, I think. And then we played at the Middle East in Boston with them. But it was really interesting. That was about, I'd say, ‘95. I’m kind of gaining more of an appreciation for them. And that was an awesome tour because we went down the west coast with KARP, and didn't have anything in the middle of the country, and then went out and played with Unwound and then drove all the way back. I think it was ‘94, ‘95 because that was the year of that massive flood, when the Mississippi River flooded. But just seeing the crowds that on my own shows was very- you know, so many people there, y’know, “Can I write your setlist?” People were super into him. That's the cool thing… access to music then was these zines and barely online. People, word of mouth and little magazines… you remember. Bold type and like, there's a band name and something about ‘em, all that shit back in the day. 

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John Shultz  48:43

I know when I was writing for Axis, this was you know, ‘96 into 1999.

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Ryan Von Bargen  48:49

I have one of the stickers, yeah.

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John Shultz  48:52

It was like, three cool places to be, man. Austin, Chapel Hill, and Olympia was the triad of cool indie music. Why do you think Olympia got that? Do you think it was K records? Do you think it was because of Evergreen? Do you think it was because of grunge and all that?

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Ryan Von Bargen  49:07

I think it's that revolving door of people that came in over those periods of time.

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John Shultz  49:13

And they’d take that shit back home with them and talked it up.

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Ryan Von Bargen  49:17

Yeah, and people are like, “Oh, Evergreen!” Because now, I'm sure evergreen has got a different rep than it did in the 90s. Like why people want to go there, what their motivation is to go there. And I'm sure for some time after Nirvana. And because, dude- people heard about these house parties where all this shit was going on. I'm sure it really was enticing, It was very beautiful. It's like “Yeah, I want to go do that. That sounds great. People are nice, the water’s clean, the rent’s cheap.” Now it's fucking ridiculous. But I think that's one thing, it was just the place and time. That happened just right. So everybody can enjoy all that shit. That band Mother May I, they were from like South Dakota or something like that, and they moved out here. And they went to Evergreen… and they had Tim, and I can see that dude’s long hair, the drummer.  And Van. Van ended up like being some sort of salesperson for Dancing Goats Coffee. I know he worked there for years. But you know, people that moved here because, you know, Nirvana. They heard bands like Hell Trout. “Whoa, fuck. There's a cool thing going on here.” It was a cool thing. I've seen people give shit about it but it was another thing about the Olympia music scene- if people were out of tune, like, “Oh, you're out of tune you!” people are like, “eh,, I always liked that. Besides yellin’ “Freebird,” “You're out of tune” was the other thing that was the call of the Wild in the crowds in Olympia. [laughing] And it was just cool. And bands like Fitz, like I loved Fitz when I wasn't in Fitz. Like, Man, fuck, I've seen ‘em with Jim or with Brian or with Justin. Or, I went to Canada with Jason Morales for Helltrout, [they] played a couple of shows. They're a good band, it's always a good time… I know if I'd seen ‘em back in the day, even saw when I was playing with ‘em, I'd be like, “Well, that's a bummer. You guys only played for like 20 minutes. Fuck’s up with that?” That's another thing that started getting under my skin about that stuff. I did a lot of practice and I can play a lot more songs, and the setlist has got a lot of shit that’s getting crossed off because someone can't do it. And that kind of shit just grates on me. I get tired of it, you know? When we were talking about the drug thing… you can't tell someone not to do it. You can support them, but then at what point do you just enable them with your support, or not? And some people, they're gonna be lifers until they're dead. There's no convincing them otherwise.

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John Shultz  52:29

Nobody's gonna quit unless they want to. You got to decide whether they want to deal with it or not.

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Ryan Von Bargen  52:35

Yeah, and now because of fentanyl and all this shit… It’s a bad deal. But going back to that, I think that's why, in my opinion, the thing was in Olympia because people are pretty damn neighborly. There was a good crew of people coming in and out that helped, that also had super skills. And some people quietly had money so they were able to start a venue. And people were able to buy some gear and whatever. Music Six [Music 6000] was always really cool, and they worked with local musician types.

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John Shultz  53:54

Still do. 

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Ryan Von Bargen  53:59

Jay Blakesburg was a guy who was a Deadhead back in New Jersey, and that's where Danny [Kelly] is from. And I don't know about Colin, but Stuart and Diana and a lot of those people- I think Mark Eckert , even. Like people that were in Heliotroupe, they were East Coaster kids, and they came out to go to Evergreen. So Jay Blakesburg was one of the major suppliers of LSD to the late ‘70s crowd, and also a rock'n'roll photographer. If you look this dude up, he's got books just full of fucking great pictures of the best rockers, all the bands, you know. Like, that scene going on here in Olympia in the late ‘70s early ‘80s With Heliotroupe, it was like its own little- because I said, this guy did a documentary and it's fucking cool seeing all the people talk about like how they were into the Dead, That's the kind of shit they like, but then they came out to go see shows in Los Angeles or whatever and just loved how everybody was super nice, and then they stayed out on the west coast. And then this guy got busted because he was just fucking sending LSD to his parents’ address. Like, sheets and sheets. He moved hundreds of thousands of hits of LSD, but in the way you could back then… in the mail. USPS, baby. USPS, so good. But he got busted, then went to prison. But he got out because his dad was like a senator or something. He had a little privilege to get his ass out of jail. But then he moved out to [Olympia], and he hung out with the Heliotroupe people, and they all lived in a house and went to school at Evergreen. I guess my point is… that's another facet of that revolving door of very creative people that were/had been part of the Olympia music community, and influenced it in whatever way. Like, Kenny's the sound dude, he worked at Music Six. He was Heliotroupe’s sound guy. I can't think of his name. There's photos like the Jay has in his coffee table book that's got like Stewart Holliman in it, and Avast, you know? And it's pretty cool. It's part of the whole big loving community of the music thing, you know. Which is like also because of Danny and Chris Pugh getting together and doing Creep, and it's just a big family, right? It’ll be interesting to hear what some of the K records side of it is, because it's gotta be like, “Oh, I heard Olympia was rad” or whatever, because it's not going to be like my story. I was like, all these people, they were all were like-minded people in a sea of fuckin assholes and rednecks. And we had a way to be ourselves, and our thing that wasn't violent. It was inclusive. You know, it wasn't super judgmental. All over, if you were a poser that was the worst fucking thing. That's funny because in the punk realm, if you’re a poser, that is the worst. Especially in high school… isn’t that funny, how all that shit is?

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John Shultz  58:08

Let's talk about some of the other house parties, like places. The Glass House yeah, the Mushroom House, and what? I mean how many others were there?

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Ryan Von Bargen  58:20

Jesus, there was a bunch, dude. I mean… like you mentioned down on West Bay, but then even I remember there were parties, because parties just happened. And Nathan probably mentioned them, you know, like there was the Swamp House and the ABC House and and the Lucky Seven House later on. There were always places that shows happened. And the Mushroom House… Vern lived there before I did, and then when they moved out, I moved in. And when we lived there we had a few pretty decent rock shows there. And… the Boston Harbor House where at the time, too- Fitz played there and Young Lions played there… but it's like this whole community goes to this thing because we're all like-minded, and go to the thing, and that's how you know everyone.. When we're talking about Sonny or whatever, like all these people- oh god, or the house that was down on Cooper Point by the golf course, where it crosses? The Caddyshack is what it was called. Fuck, dude, played some rad shows there.  

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John Shultz  59:30

Nathan lived there then, when he was in Guillotine, because they opened for Butthole Surfers and Butthole Surfers stayed out there for a week. Your house didn’t burn down? [laughing]

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Ryan Von Bargen  59:39

Yeah. I remember the last show, it was a house wrecking party. Fitz played there at the Caddyshack and I remember we were playing in the kitchen, facing the living room. I remember by the end, you couldn't touch the stove plugged in because you’d get shocked… but by the time we walk in, we set up our shit, we start playing the show, the room’s packed. But by the time we're done, you can see out of the living room outside, because people were taking the bathroom sink and throwing it through walls, dude. And seriously, there's still power on in the house. And so we got all the shit out of there. And everybody continued to wreck the house late into the evening. And I still have the eagle from the top of the flag pole from that, too. I keep all that shit. Like, look at this. But it's fine, doesn't take up a lot of space, man. Just a time capsule… so it's like three in the morning. Everybody's standing outside. And all of a sudden the house just like, boom, it collapsed. And everybody's like, [yelling] “YEAH!!!” I just think, how can no cop show up? And there must not be any houses right next to it… that was rad house. There were so many of them. I mean, it's hard to, like- because there are other ones, like even when you talked about that one house. It wasn't a party house, but the one where you saw Eric Williams at or whatever. It's just like, there were just so many, but there were main ones. There was another place where I saw No Problem play. And it's kind of where Casa Mia is. But yeah, the house doesn’t even look the same now. It wasn't necessarily a party house, but it was one place that I saw No Problem play, that was a rad house party.

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John Shultz  1:02:10

Literally across the street from a cop shop.

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Ryan Von Bargen  1:02:14

Yeah, pretty damn close, man. Just down the road from it. But I think some of those parties, like, oh god… Kaiser Road, that was another one where they happened in two places- at the barn, and then one where I saw Helltrout at this house party in the basement. And you entered from the back outside.  Great show. Helltrout was always awesome because they were so solid, so loud, sounded so good. Dave was such a fucking- he is a killer drummer. That shit is just insane. And then just down the road like Northwest-ish from there is where that barn is, we played a bunch of parties there. Like, Death Squad and Fitz. Pod played there, you know.

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John Shultz  1:03:39

Did Nirvana ever play there?

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Ryan Von Bargen  1:03:43

No, not that I'm aware of. I know that they played shows that I obviously didn't go to you know because they played other ones that were weirdo shows. But in Olympia, the only one I saw around here with them is the one at the Reko Muse show where I was- god, I was explaining that to someone, I started bawling I just was like… believe me or not, but that the [cover] picture of [Nirvana’s] Bleach is where I stood for the fucking show. The album cover of this band that just broke out, changed the fucking world was what I was looking at that night when I watched the band with Kathleen [Hanna], Viva Knievel and then got to see Nirvana. And that's why, from the pictures that were taken from that night, you can see Viva Knievel. They had this banner or whatever of Elvis that was- it seems like it was on velvet or something. But it was behind them. And it in the background, behind Chad the drummer, you know.

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Chad had those weird drums that were like-

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John Shultz  1:05:25

Is that the one where they show Kurt fall under the drums. Is that that night?

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Ryan Von Bargen  1:05:27

No, that's Raji’s. And we didn't fucking go to that show because Mikey and Craig were under age. We were down andn played in Los Angeles. And I know because I was the only one who was 21 in the band at that time. And I remember I wanted to go to that show, and I didn't. I should have just been like, “well, fuckin’ see you guys later.” I don't know why. I don't know why. Because I could have gone. 

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John Shultz

We’re a band, we gotta hang out, bro.

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Ryan Von Bargen

Dude, I just saw this- well, besides seeing the Sound City documentary and being like, that is crazy. That, I remember because we went to go get Nirvana’s gear, because Kurt had just finished up all his vocal tracks. They’d already done all the tracking and we met with Butch Vig there, and his assistant. They were retuning the cello on “Something In the Way” and taking clicks and shit out. And in early digital audio digital editing and whatever, they were using a Yamaha DX7 to get the the note, you know, kind of go “doot doot doot” [imitating keyboard] then tune the cello. And we met Fleetwood Mac's manager, chatting for a while. Krist and Mikey and Craig and I played some free pinball they had there. But walking into the studio, I didn't really think anything., They had gold records on the wall and these shaggy carpet walls, and not thinking much of it, because it's like, I just was so naive. And just like, “Oh, this is Los Angeles, this is just this is how it is. This is the industry, this is how it is down here.” And then, you know meeting Mick Fleetwood and like, getting to look into the studio where he was recording some drum tracks, and this like heating duct coming out of the kick drum. They had it miked,  and the kick drum miked, and they had that miked in various places. ‘Cause, you know, when you go into the studio, and you're like, “fuck, that song took days to do, and we did it in pieces.” And when you listened to in the end, you're like, that's magic. Because you can't tell it's all cut up and fucked up. Right? But yeah, I remember we went to go get their gear from the room they recorded in and seeing Kurt's music stand that had a spiral notebook. And just being like, if I was in nefarious bastard, I would have stolen that fucker. Just going through and reading like, I'm On a Plain, and reading all the lyrics, flipping through and being like, “Oh, wow, cool.” And they had daily rough mixes that they had- because we stayed at that- Did you see Sound City? So that place they stayed, the Toluca hotel or whatever- that we stayed with them there for like a week. And they had these rough mix tapes and I got to listen to all that. I loved that. I would love to have one now. 

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John Shutz

That was Nevermind, right? Yeah, it was… but what I was gonna say is, because we played with Nirvana at the Jabberjaw. And I just saw a picture and some, like YouTube threw up some demo of some Nirvana song, and it's got a picture of Iggy Pop and Kurt and Krist. That's definitely from the Jabberjaw, from the show we played with them… the Jabberjaw is an all ages venue in Los Angeles on Pico. Gary Denton was the man's name, and he had a partner too that had the club, but they had these paintings on the wall of those big eyed- you know thos Keane, Bob Keane, I believe was his name. I don't if they’re original or not, but there's a bunch of those kinds of paintings on the wall. I met Iggy Pop at that show, because I remember we got done playing, dude, it was so fucked. We played “God of Thunder.” And on that tour, we had been playing “1969” And we didn't play it that night, and Iggy Pop was there. I feel like it was kind of a like a mistake. It wasn't- and that's another thing. It's like, I took a 30 year stab at like “gonna make it” or whatever. Just, sometimes, luck wasn't mine. I don't win if I gamble. I don't play like that. I have to work for my shit. You know what I mean? Like you understand? So I think that in my luck, it just didn't work out. I got done playing with Fitz, “Fuck that shit,” and then Brian and Greg and Mikey got to go out and do the glory shit of their moment. And the thing is that they really got to travel and tour, they were supported and got records put out and all that other kind of shit, but I just didn't get to enjoy that, and I think that's fine. But it's also like, you got to do it yourself. That's what Calvin did. I guess you know that’s what Slim or whatever those guys do. They did it themselves, you know? 

And now I'm a little more apathetic, and don't care as much. I don't look at this fucking “band tree.” I just did that back in the day because I'm like, “I love Olympia. I love this whole thing.” And this came out of whole thing of like, you want more than just Nirvana and Soundgarden and Beat Happening and Witchy Poo to be represented in this whole thing, Sleater-Kinney, right? Like, I made this out of, like “yeah, there were more than just fucking five bands around here.”

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John Shultz  1:10:52

Since we’re recording, I’ll mention what this is. Ryan brought in a big desk-sized piece of paper with an Olympia band family tree. I mean, it's impressive. God,it even has the dates on it.

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Ryan Von Bargen  1:11:04

Oh, man, because that rough one doesn't have the dates. And I quit doing this, like years ago… you know how you can like you see PDFs where… now you can do it on a website, where you can zoom in and zoom out, I'd love to see this digitized. And then where people can log in and kind of vet the reality of if it's a band or not, so somebody who's doesn't vindictively put their name and something they didn't [have anything to do with], like a shitty Wikipedia entry. And Mikey used to bitch about that. He was like, “Man, I can't fucking I can't edit the Fitz Wikipedia.” I tried to do it at work, but it just said the IP was blocked. So I'm like, “okay.” And I haven't tried to get back to do it at home, because it's like, whoever told my little story, I'm glad I'm at least in there. But there's more than that, more than anything. Because it's important. I feel like it's important to tell the truth and get everybody their fucking credit, man. It's my history. I already lived it, you know. And I think that it also helped be a catalyst to move on in other directions if I want. You know, like we were talking about earlier, about punk and what it is. It's outside of the box music. And I want to make more outside of the box music. But I also want to feel like I want to do it too.

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John Shultz  1:13:36

So is that kind of where you are now?

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Ryan Von Bargen  1:13:40

Well, I got a job at work all the fucking time. I get up at 5: 15 in the morning. And right now because [legislative] session’s on, I'm there from seven to five. And I live in Chehalis, because we got priced our asses out of Olympia, man. So yeah, I couldn't live in my hometown. I'm sure that I'm not the only person that has that, you know, I know that, and it's shitty. So a lot of my life is wrapped up in just decompressing from working. But dude, I used to fucking have construction jobs and practice three days a week and then play two shows on the weekend or one show or four shows or three or whatever. And we’d practice and I played and I played and I never stopped and you know, we'd practice for two or three hours three times a week- you know, Chief and Death Squad, and then Fitz not as much because it was always like go through the set, kinda basically barely work on shit. Chief was a harder working band.

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John Shultz  1:14:38

Yeah. Well, in our age, it gets tiresome.

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Ryan Von Bargen  1:14:42

It is, but I feel like if you have- like your your situation, man, you’ve got a dudes you want to work with. So it probably makes it a lot easier to stand there and do it. And come up with ideas that people are not like- dude, Mikey was a fucking shooter-downer. “How about we do this?” he's like, “how about you fuckin’ can let this happen, and then like and write more and change it later...” like Chuck Berry shit or whatever, you know, it's like, you're not that guy anyway. But in his own right, Fitz of Depression was a superband like in its own right. That's another thing too, like when we go to play those Christmas shows I always go fill up my water jug, in the past few years at that one well that was over by Pete Lee's. And I stand there and just be like, you know, I’d listen to the radio on the way down and hear Zeppelin and think, man, that's cool that Fitz is part of that, even in a little way. Like, we're part of rock and roll history. And then I fucking love that. And it’s Mikey, it's him… I mean, I was in it, but some people have always had a weird like, charisma. What the fuck? Because you can get four people in a room. Everybody likes that one person way more. And Mikey was that guy. He was just cool. 

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John Shultz  1:16:06

The thing always about Mikey, who's you know, I wouldn't see him for a couple years, every time I’d see him he’d give me a hug, you know.  He was great. He had his demons, as we all do.

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Ryan Von Bargen  1:16:17

Yeah. And Jared too, man, he doesn't forget a fucking thing. He remembers all these- “Oh, that's so-and-so, that's (their name).” It's like, how do you do it? 

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John Shultz

Right, him and Nathan, same thing.

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Ryan Von Bargen

Some people, I can. I can't remember some things. Like here, talking to you about these things, I'm talking about things I haven't thought about in a long time… lots of good rock and roll, lots of shows. And that's another thing, Stuart did sound when we played with Bikini Kill and Nirvana at the OK Hotel for that show when they played “Teen Spirit” for the first time. Stuart was the sound guy for you that.  So I remember when “Teen Spirit” was being debuted in Seattle I was up next to Stuart in the sound booth, and just watching the crowd react to the dynamics of that song, because you know how it is. Just watching people like being [imitates gentle guitar part from “Smells Like Teen Spirit” verses] and then kind of being more mellow, and then when it takes off, you know, people were just like, “WHAAAAT?!” and that's what Nirvana- they were fucking such a good rock band. And that's not from playing too many fills and being all fucking busy. That's where everybody's got their space. And Dave was a fucking hard hitter when we played with them at the Jabberjaw in Los Angeles… there was this weird spot behind the drummer, it was just like a long rectangle that was narrow. And so when you walk in the door to the menu at the back, the stage is right there that's faced towards the front of the room, right? So there's this weird riser behind the drummer, where you put all the gear and that's where I sat and watched Dave play. And before that show, too, we went to Jennifer Finch’s house. And I think that Courtney was there, and I can barely remember meeting her. But I was told that we met her and I was like, “Oh, cool.” But we had some Indian food at Jennifer's house, that was delicious. It was cool. That was a lot, I feel so lucky to have gotten to… it’s basically like I got to hang out with the Led Zeppelin or something of our time. Pretty lucky. So that is, to me the success of it.? Even if nobody's like, “Hey, come play bass for us” or whatever, you know, at least [there’s] all that. So that's where I guess I'm at. I'm like, “Am I done or not done?” That, I don't know. Because I could do that. I feel it's a waste of all those years of planning and plucking and working hard because playing is fun. However, like when we played on Christmas, I played the songs of the Stuntmen, we played a few Fitz songs. I was not super practiced up, so it was really hard. And I had to sing. And that was like, I didn't- I mean, I sang songs in Fitz barely. But that wasn't my main goal, and I haven't done it for a long time. You know, so it's just like, oh, god. Yeah, it was tough, man. But it was fun. But it was scary too. Because I was like, not all practiced up like I'd want to be, because we only played for like a couple of weeks before the thing. Had like seven or eight practices, you know, so doing your best, but it's not the best that can be. It can't be less than it should be, because it'll be shit. Yeah, you know if you're gonna do that kind of stuff. It's got to be good or not.

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John Shultz  1:19:49

You don’t want to crap on a legacy, as it were.

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Ryan Von Bargen  1:19:52

Yeah, you gotta do the best you can. Some people said that I did alright, that's good. I'm [feeling] more like I sounded like I missed a lot of shit, and I just brought my bass and plugged into Tully’s gear and he's got Ampeg 215 I think and one of those nice SVT heads. But I've never used that shit, and so I'm just like, “Oh,” and this is an active bass, I'm like, “Oh, good to know,” you know, and put it in the right jack. But I was kind of trippy, because I just stood there, and it's time to rock out. It's very kind of blindsiding, you know, but it was cool. And I'm thankful that I have the opportunity to stand up there and do that because I can. I'd rather be more practiced up. And it sure would be nice to play in a band where you didn't have to sing high and play fast, you know, because then you can just… because I'll see other bands and be envious of how fucking easy their shit is, man. Like, “You're lucky you’re just like [imitates medium paced bass line], or whatever it is. You're lucky you're not having to really kill it. All you got to do is be present, and have your soul behind it. And you can't fake that shit, either. But some bands are lucky. They just are only five or six years old, and they are killing it, you know? Like, they're lucky. And some bands- like, I just heard the Idles- like, really over the last couple of years and just being like- but they're like 15 years old, that shit is not new. They've been honing what they're doing. And they went through a lot of shit to get to a place where they're healing and being able to portray that in their music, and in a positive way to help other people. So it's like aggressive music, but it's also almost like squeezing a stress ball for music, you know? Like, I like it. I think they're cool. But that's like Viagra Boys. I just love that guy's intellect and his sense of humor, and the poignancy in our time and just being able to describe it like that. I think it's important. That's a lot of stuff, but it's Yeah, man. Punks, not dead. But it depends on what you want to call it, because every once in a while, there's some fucking shit that's just like outrageous. Like we were talking about Amyl and the Sniffers. Those are old sounding riffs, but there's a new vibe to it. It's like I already had, like, you know, Not So Quiet on the Western Front. And like, you know, the Punk and Disorderly records, you know, all the British stuff. Some of it sounds similar to that British stuff. But it's got its own new, contemporary veneer. 

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John Shultz  1:23:08

Right. It's all been done. I mean, shit, you can only do so much right? There’s only so many frets on a fucking guitar or bass, you know.

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Ryan Von Bargen  1:23:13

And as an example, that song, “The Wheel” by The Idles. Have you heard that? Give it a listen. I'm not trying to- because I'm not a super Idles fan. They're cool, I really like what they're doing. But when you hear that, and you listen to what they're doing, it's like- fuckin’ that's a cool way to approach the bass line. And their guitar player’s like what like when you're talking when you're hearing Dave and your guitar player, Patrick- when you're hearing those guys make their magic, that's… what the Idles guitar player’s like. And they're just, they're approaching it in a different soundscapey kind of way. I can appreciate that, and it just puts a new spin on it. Like you said, it's all been done. And sure, because there's only there's only that many notes. But there is a way to like [get] everyone to agree they're heading off in that direction, which is fucking hard to find… and then, sure, you can all agree, but can they keep their shit together? Are you gonna show up wasted? Are you gonna blow it off? Because you're tired, in my case, no, they couldn't. There's all kinds of different variables that make the luck of it a thing too, you know. And I've been lucky because I got to play with some badass [musicians] like Jerry and Craig and good fucking drummers. You know, Miles, he was good. It's interesting how he had maybe not been known in the world, but man, I really appreciated the work he did and how we were able to get a lot of stuff done and be on the same page artistically in our career. I had a kid and that kind of blew all that, you know. He was bummed when I had a kid. He's like, “Oh, this is gonna kill this,” because I was a present Papa, you know? I mean, I took my kids to tons of rock shows but it's like, I couldn't just go off and do it for months at a time. I had to fucking make money and all that shit, and that's what I did. It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll, man.

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