Kelsey Smith  0:03  

This is Kelsey Smith. And I am interviewing Allison Wolfe for the Olympia Indie Music Project... Today is Thursday, March 16. And I am in Olympia, Washington and Allison is in LA, Correct?

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Allison Wolfe  0:25  

Yes, I am.

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Kelsey Smith  0:32  

So we're gonna start off with a really basic question about your early life. When did you move from Memphis to Olympia? What do you remember about your relocation? And can you share any memories of your first impressions of Olympia?

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Allison Wolfe  0:49  

Okay, so I was born an identical twin, in Memphis, Tennessee, in November 9, 1969. My father is from East Tennessee, and he was going to school in Memphis. And my mom is from Ralston, which is basically Omaha, Nebraska. And she moved to Memphis because she had a friend who was going to school down there, who said school and living and everything was cheaper there. So that's why she went. And then she ended up-she was working at a hospital, I think. And that's–she ended up going to nursing school because she realized she enjoyed or you know, was really interested in all that stuff. Because she was like an English Lit major or something at first. And then she went to nursing school and nursing school, I think, was cheaper, too, than the regular college. Something like that. And my dad was in med[ical] school. So they met. And so my dad actually was a doctor in Vietnam in the war. And while my mom was a Memphis, and he was away was when Martin Luther King Jr. was shot and killed, as we know, and I think that that made a huge impression on my mom. And I think, ultimately, it was part of the reason she wanted to move out of the South. And she was like, you know, I think I'm not saying that, like racism and things like that don't exist elsewhere. But I think things were a lot more pronounced back then. And she came from a very poor Catholic family. And I think she felt also just somewhat discriminated against in the South. And probably also wanted to get away from her in-laws. But anyways, so they ended up–I mean, we weren't born yet. But anyway, so then we were born not too much later. And then my parents moved about, I think, when we were like, three, maybe three or four moved to Mount Vernon, Washington, so Northern Washington State. And both my parents worked at hospitals in Skagit Valley. And then my little sister was born in Sedro Wooley–my little sister Molly–and my twin sister’s name is Cindy. So I think my first impression of Washington State was slugs. And it just rained all the time. And there were slugs everywhere. And I'd never seen a slug before. And I just remember they were everywhere. They were on doorknobs, they were on- and it just–I think we'd scream and be like, aaah!, you know, grab the doorknob to go back in the house, aaaah! there’s a slug! Because I think our first house was like, totally in the woods. And it was just wet in the woods, whatever. So that was my main impression of Washington State. Also, it was the ‘70s, you know, and there were like, kind of hippies everywhere. You know, whatever. Everyone's kind of growing beards and being hippies. And my aunt, my mom's best friend from nursing school, Jean Beringer- they weren't related, but you know, we called her my aunt Jean–she had moved into a kind of converted shed behind our house. So she kind of helped raise us. But anyways, it seemed like everyone was kind of smoking pot and playing cards a lot. I remember that. Anyway, then at some point, I guess maybe more when we were like six or seven, we ended up moving. Well, my–actually my mom left my dad and brought us three kids with her. They would fight a lot. And she just left one day, took us, and we didn't leave you know- I think we couldn't leave town until there was a court case and all this you know, whatever, divorce court and then custody court- and my mom got custody of us. And then we moved to Seattle for a hot second, maybe half a year to a year, so that my mom could go back to school. And I think it was a school called Gynecorps, I swear to God, and it was on in what is that big building that I think Amazon owns now on Beacon Hill, in Seattle. So I think her classes were in there. And her teacher was this woman Linda Andrews... who my mom, like, they became girlfriends. So my mom came out as a lesbian, and a hippie and a vegetarian and all this stuff when she left my dad. So you know, all of a sudden, we're going to all these like, hot tub parties on lesbian land type stuff, you know, and going camping on weekends. Oh, my God. It was, you know, it was cool in a way, but there's just too much like rain and mud involved in everything. So people are always like, you don't like camping? And I'm like, dude, growing up in the Northwest, and you're always camping in the rain. Hell no. Like, people are always like, why do you live in LA? And like, because it doesn't rain, although it's been raining a lot this winter. It's like raining now. So my mom and her teacher, Linda started going out. And I think Linda left her husband for my mom. Yeah. And then after the Course was over, or whatever, we all moved back to Mount Vernon. So Linda moved with us. And so she helped raise us as well. And I also went off and did gymnastics, like, Oh, that was so horrible. But anyways, I got sent away. Well, I guess I wanted to but I got sent away to Eugene, Oregon to do gymnastics around that time, for a year. And I think it was like a third grade or something. third or fourth, fourth, maybe I don't know. Anyways, that was awful. And I ended up living with some horrible, awful family that basically just took my parents money and like, treated me terribly. You know, like, seriously, like, they hardly fed me or anything. And then anyways, I finally said, Okay, I want to go home. And then I was back there back in Mount Vernon. But my mom now with her higher degree. So she’d earned it, she was a nurse before, she had actually specialized in kind of a birthing center in in the Skagit Valley. But now she went back to school, and now she was a registered nurse practitioner. So it's like, you know, kind of halfway between nurse and doctor. And she wanted to start a women's health clinic that was all, you know, for women, by women about women, all that. So she did some research and there was only one other one in the whole state of Washington. So she went moved us down to Olympia to start one there because I think the other one was probably in northern Washington state or in Seattle or something. So we moved to Olympia, all of us, Linda came with us as well. And I think Aunt Jean and even came with us down to Olympia. So there we were, and my mom, I guess she had a hard time even just getting a loan to start the clinic in Olympia because you know, unmarried woman, you know, they needed a man to cosign, Where's her husband, all that kind of thing. So I think it was finally Key Bank, I think Key Bank was finally the bank who gave her a loan. And so she really kind of pledged her allegiance to them after that, like she got all her friends to get accounts there and everything. But then just to say, you know, down the line years and years later, when she wanted to refinance or move her clinic across town, I think they wouldn't loan her, so then she's like, Fuck you, Key Bank, told all her friends to leave Key Bank, and then move to Heritage Bank, which is downtown Olympia. So anyways, my mom then became very loyal to Heritage bank. Anyways, so she started the clinic. We hardly had any money. I know, we were just broke for a long time. And it was like, you know, like things like the heat. We couldn't have any heat until like, the heat didn't come on to like Thanksgiving, maybe or something like that. And then it went off March 1. That was for sure. I remember that. We had like a wood burning stove and crap. And yeah. Anyway, so it's fifth grade. So Cindy and I were like 10 When we moved to Olympia it was I know we're in fifth grade, maybe partway through the year. And we lived about five minutes away from school. So we are near we went to Pioneer Elementary. And then later Olympia, High School so we are like five minutes from both locations are right next to each other, but the middle school, Washington [Middle School] was a different story altogether, because that was further but anyways. So yeah, I don't know, I remember… it [Pioneer] was kind of open plan school and there was mods, you know, mods and pods and things that didn't have walls and all this. And so that was kind of interesting to me, it seemed modern. 

I know Cindy and I joined an after school music program that our teacher or my teacher, at leastCharlie Long, he started it was called the musiKids had a big K, like all one word musiKids with a K big K in the middle. And I remember, he would select the students. So it was a little bit elitist or something, like I think the other kids who weren't selected felt really bad. So then the other teacher, there are only t 5th grade teachers. The other one started his own after school program so that those kids wouldn't feel left out. But it was something else like maybe they do games or sports or something. But anyway, so we did music. And basically it was like Jimmy Buffett covers it was all covers. So it's like Jimmy Buffett, the Beatles at best. Lots of Neil Diamond. Yep. [laughing] So those kinds of songs. And then we would have matching shirts, but different primary colors at this musiKids on it. And then we would do like jazz hands and we would go perform at like senior centers and things like that. So anyways, it was kind of funny. But then I remember like, at some point in middle school, I think I quit because you know, once you start going through puberty and everything, everyone's voice changes, right? Like everyone's voice dropped, my voice dropped as well, I think, you know.  So then I was like, Ah, I can't sing anymore. But I was in band. I was in middle school band. I played clarinet. And Cindy did percussion in the school band. So Middle School was Washington Middle School, or whatever. It was further away. I remember we had to ride our bikes in the rain all the time, or walk. But it's a little bit hard to walk. You had to get up pretty early. And I remember we didn't have fenders on our bikes. You know, of course my mom bought us 10 speeds or something. Nothing girly. Of course, my mom was a butch lesbian, by the way. So nothing was femmey. And so I remember we just have streaks up our butts. It just sucked. You know, I think she gave us ponchos. So my mom would never give us a ride to school. I'm just gonna say this, we would get a ride on- I mean, it didn't matter in grade school in middle school because we lived so close- But I remember like on first day of school, last day of school and picture day, okay, so she'd give us a ride three days. She was really busy. I get it and you know, kind of single parenting even though like she had like long term live-in girlfriends, here and there. But what? I'm sure everybody was working. Yeah. So I was just remember also, yeah, I remember grade school, we were on the free lunch program. So you know, back then, like, the tickets were different colors. It was so messed up, man. So I can't remember I think it was like ours were red and everyone else's were orange or something like that. So it's just kind of they made it obvious if you're on the free lunch program, so messed up. And I remember the secretary of the school was constantly drilling us and asking us questions about our mom. And I wasn't sure why. But it seemed like she was trying to get at something. But I think part of it was maybe she didn't believe that we deserved to be on the free lunch program or something like, Oh, she probably makes too much money. Or maybe she was trying to find out if she was lesbian, who knows? You know, something. But like, we definitely realized we are different than the other kids. We also didn't have bras. So I remember that. And all these other kids started wearing bras in fifth grade. So I remember that. And then guys would try to look down our shirts and pull our hair, just fucked up shit. Anyways, I wish I now like Oh, yup, punch the guys. But Cindy and I were pretty shy because we were the new kids. I also want to note that Cristina Calle, who lives in Olympia still, she moved to Olympia the same year we did, partway through fifth grade and and came to the same school. So anyways, so Cristina and I were friends because we were the new kids at school. And, yeah, so anyway, so then in middle school, I remember my mom bringing scabies home from work, you know, and then all of a sudden we got scabies and it took forever to get rid of it. You know, we’d do the treatment, we’d wash everything but if someone forgot one towel or you didn't have the dryer hot enough, whatever so anyways, so now we're like the poor kids with scabies with the lesbian mom. Yeah, it was pretty traumatizing because you know, middle school when you really want to be cool. And we couldn't be cool. But what else am I saying? Oh, musically. So I was on clarinet, I was first chair for some reason. And then I remember at some point, there was like two or three guys behind me who were definitely better musicians, and they were total nerds. And they practiced way more than me. I'm sure I stopped practicing. And they were one day, they're like, Oh, we're gonna challenge Allison for her chair. And I was like, what? And I knew I couldn't beat them. So I just was like, ugh... so the day before they were gonna challenge me, I switched instruments to bass clarinet. Because I wanted to remain first chair. That gives you some insight into me. So yeah, so there's only one bass clarinet. And so anyways, and the school had one. So you know, there's, those are so big and expensive. You couldn't buy one. So the school had one. So I played it, but me and those three guys, who became first, second, third chair- we entered state competitions, we formed an after school clarinet quartet. And we won like three years in a row at state. So that was like, probably sixth, seventh and eighth grade or something.  So that was cool. You know, and I'd be like, bringing up the like, [imitates bass clarinet] or whatever. But then when we got to high school at Olympia High School, I got to band class and oh my god, if there wasn't another bass clarinetist- and she was older than me. She was probably like a senior. And so then all of a sudden, I'm like, second chair. I'm like, what? How could there be another bass clarinet person? Anyways, whatever. And she was always telling me what to do and stuff, real bossy.

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Kelsey Smith  17:17  

did you want to share the names of the of the guys that you were in the clarinet quartet with? And also, did you have a name for your quartet?

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Allison Wolfe  17:29  

I don't remember if we had a name, but I got I can't remember all the names, but one guy was named Dean Schmidtke. I remember that. And another one was named Kevin. I can't remember his last name. I'm sure I'm Facebook friends with all these guys. And there's another one- Oh, God, it was... I have the worst memory. And the woman in high school. I can't remember her name at all. So then I was in high school, but you know, okay. So by the time we got to high school to Olympia high school, we were like, I think my mom's business the clinic had taken off a little, And we were feeling a little bit cooler. We had bobs [haircuts] and you know, whatever. And I think people were like, oh, twins, whatever. So I do want to say one thing though. Like during the time while my mom was doing her clinic [Thurston Women’s Health Clinic] she I just want to say that she got harassed a lot. You know, there were anti choice, Anti reproductive rights protesters, you know, Christian weirdos all the time. And they were constantly protesting her clinic. The cops were totally on their side, not my mom's- you know that one time, like she, they all would go to lunch and they left all their signs just all over scattered across the front lawn of the clinic. And she just took all their shit and threw it in the dumpster, was like, whatever, you can't just litter my place and they came back and then they started like- maybe they saw her throwing it in and then they grabbed her by one arm and they were pulling her, like arm to arm. And she called- yelled, and maybe the neighbors called the cops you know, because there was an orthodontist, Curtis Sapp [DDS, 1415 Harrison Ave NW]. Anyways, he was the orthodontist next door to her and he- those people [dental staff] really supported my mom, I want to say- and so I think he called the cops or something. And of course, the cops didn't do anything or whatever. So, you know, she had a lot of that- she had to work really late hours. Back then, it was not routine to do rape kits at hospitals where they're done now. So my mom was also on call to do that, to do rape kits. If a woman was gathering the evidence, you know, and if like the authorities were involved in stuff like that, and she would testify in court on their behalf. You know, the rare times when women feel like they can come forward and when they actually get to court. And my mom would receive death threats from men who she had testified against. I mean, all she did was say, Yeah, I examined this woman, she was raped. Not that any woman deserves to get a death threat, but she did as well. And then at some point later, she worked in a women's prison. I know she would do health care to women's prison. Like I don't think it's in Olympia. It must be somewhere. It's out in the county somewhere probably. Anyways, so anyways...

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Kelsey Smith  20:31  

Maybe in Shelton? I can’t remember the name of it either. But, yeah, if you would like to you can share your mom's name and the name of the clinic when you get a chance.

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Allison Wolfe  20:41  

Oh, that would help. Yeah. So my mom's name is Pat Shively. And when she first opened the clinic, it was called the Thurston Women's Health Clinic. And then later when she moved across town, it was Eastside Women's Health Clinic. So yeah.

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Kelsey Smith  21:05  

Let me know when you want me to ask you another question? You're totally you're you're basically just doing what I wanted you to do, and that's fine. But if you decide you want a new question, let me know.

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Allison Wolfe  21:18  

Yeah, I'm trying to do it is now chronologically sorry. I don't know. All right. Hopefully you got it. Okay. And you can move shit around. Yeah, so then, like we're in high school, like I said, I felt like we were, Cindy and I were considered to be a little bit cooler. And my mom's clinic was taking off. So we had a little bit more money, you know, we were just like, more comfortable- somewhat, a little bit. And then it was kind of more toward late high school that things felt better. But anyways, I remember I started going out with this letterman, I met him in band class, he played saxophone. And he was real Leave It to Beaver style. So like, I go over to his house and maybe his parents were older than most parents or somebody, but that definitely was like, very 50s Leave it to Beaver thing going on. They were very proper, very whatever. But he had a car. I mean, he was two years older than me, he had a car and he could drive around. And so he would take me out to dinner, you know, and stuff like that. These are things my mom never did. Or almost never, you know, only very special occasions, like birthdays or something. So I kind of thought I had it made.  You know, Letterman, Okay, he drives, he could drive me places. My mom would never drive us anywhere. And then you know, whatever, take me out to dinner, pay for it all, that kind of thing. I was like, Oh, yeah. But then I started realizing he was actually pretty controlling, you know, kind of conservative and controlling. And our house was just like, the wild west in there. Like it was wild in our house. So everyone was loud and messy and whatever. No rules. My mom had almost no rules on us. I mean, the rules were basically, like, don't disturb me, you know, like don't mess up my life would be my mom's- like, Don't wake me up, don't disturb me, don't make me like have to go out of my way to do anything I don't wanna have to do. And also, it was like, don't eat at Domino's Pizza. That was one thing, because they're anti choice. So there's just stuff like that. [laughing] And we would have friends over a lot, because they knew that they could get away with more because my mom didn't do anything, have rules, you know, but she would get pissed about that every now and then. Like, don't get in trouble so that someone else's parents come to me and blame me. So that was the other thing. But there are a lot of kids we knew who had really strict Christian conservative parents, and they would come party at our place or spend the night so they could get away with murder. And they were worse than us. They did stuff. You know, we were goody goody, Cindy and I. So they would just get into all sorts of bad shit. And then of course, their parents would blame us and my mom, oh, they’re bad influences. And it's like, no, no, no, your kid’s bad. And your kid’s bad because they're rebelling against you, because you're a jerk, you know? That's what's going on here. So, yeah, so my mom every now and then would have to stick up for us or for herself. You know, I know one time like my sister's, one of her best friend's mom came over because they were caught T.P.’ing or running around. And like she came over like to yell at my mom about all this and she's like, smoking this big fat cigar, the woman, the mother, and my mom's just like, and she's totally like apeshit crazy and my mom’s just like, What is going on here? She's like… well, I don't smoke, but I also don't smoke in front of my kids. So anyways, whatever. But then later my mom smoked cigars. Anyways, so then with this guy, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna say his name anyways, because I don't wanna- I don't think it's necessarily particular to him anyways. But I remember one time he took me out to dinner, dropped me off, and he had swim team in the morning. So probably Friday night, so he probably had to get up early. So he dropped me off kind of early. And then I remember my sister Cindy was waiting at home for me to come home. She was like, Oh, dude, there's a party, you know, on the other side of the neighborhood or whatever, I've been waiting for you to get back so we can go. So then we went to the party. And I think, you know, either his friends told him I was at the party, or I told him on Monday or whatever, you know, and he was like, mad. And he was like, “When I take you on a date and drop you off, you're home, you're in for the night.” And I was like, what? And I just didn't get it at all. It wasn't even just like, fuck that. It was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. So that was kind of weird. And so he just kind of started imposing moral types of rules like that. And I'm like, oh, Do you know who I am? Have you seen my house or my family? You know, whatever. So then I was just like, Okay, I gotta break up with this guy. He's no fun. So I think yeah, he came over one day on a Saturday and my mom wasn't home. And but my sister was home and our best friend,Sarah Loonam, who lived in the neighborhood. And she was always over. We all like, listened to Duran Duran together and stuff. Anyway, so he broke- or I broke up with him, In the hallway or something, I guess they kind of heard what was going on. He was mad and kind of yelling at me. And of course, I had no I'm sure I was not very smooth about it anyways, but I was like, blah. And he left, or I thought he left, and I went back up into my bedroom, which is where we always hung out because I had the big bedroom, and Cindy and Sarah are in there listening to Duran Duran, whatever. And so then, they're like, what's going on? And Sarah had this nervous laugh. So she kind of started laughing, but she just always laughed, it was her way. And I told them all I mean, John and I just broke up. And then I hear him and he's yelling, back inside the house, “Allison, get back out here!” And I'm like, what? And so I go back [outside my bedroom] and he's in the house again. And, we never locked our doors. So he just grabbed me by the collar, put me up against the wall and was like, “Don't you laugh at me” or bla bla bla bla bla with your friends, I think he had more to say like, and this and that and whatever, you know, and I just was like, oh, and I was like,  we weren’t laughing, that was Sarah, she always laughs, you know, whatever. And and then he like dropped me and then you know, stormed out. He grabbed a pot off the stove and like threw it across the kitchen, it put a hole in the wall, the handle broke off the pot and went into the wall, I think. And, and we kept using [laughing] I swear we kept using that pot forever. And it's just like, he owes his life to the fact that my mom wasn't home. Like seriously, like, she probably had a gun somewhere hidden. Who knows what she would have done... but I just - something in me snapped. And I just was like, This is bad. This is wrong. I didn't have language for it. Yeah, it wasn't like, Oh, this is harassment or abuse or domestic violence or domestic violence or whatever. So I just was like, This is bad. This is wrong. And so I in my mind, that was like, okay, he's a jock. These are mainstream assholes, you know, with mainstream values. You're not hanging out with him or anyone like him anymore. So really kind of overnight, I dove into subcultures. I kind of started with new wave and then kind of migrated to punk. But I really did just call up my two friends who I knew were alternatives. So it was like Karla Ulvenes who was like my waver friend who'd go to like Wednesday night, half off pizza at Capitol Mall, with all the other wavers. And then and Kenny Pugh being one of them, who owns Old School Pizzeria. That's how I met Kenny. And then, and his brother Kai. And then my friend, Cristina Calle, who was punk, you know, and she'd hang out at the Tropicana and stuff like that. No, we would. So I think Cristina and I would... I would ride my bike and she would skateboard downtown on Sunday. So by the way, The buses did not run in Olympia on Sundays for a very long time. So you had to walk or ride your bike or skate. So we would go downtown to theSmithfield Cafe and just have a bottomless cup of cup of coffee all day, like, like all the punks did. So I would hang out with her or sometimes, like on Sundays and do that. And then other times that we were hanging out at her mom's house, I remember at Christmas, Cristina's mom would make us rum balls, and we'd get giggly and I think we were drunk or whatever.

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Kelsey Smith  30:30  

What year, do you remember what year that was that… when you kind of started delving into the subculture?

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Allison Wolfe  30:40  

Freshman year of high school. So that would have been- I think I started in 84. So probably by then it would have been 85. Maybe. Because you know, the 84-85 year. I remember, it's like of 84. I think that we actually Olympia High School won state football that year, 84. That was the fall. And then yeah, so it was probably right on the cusp of 84-85 or something like that, but really 85. So then I started going to the Surf Club downtown, which was the New Wave club that all of us went through. So yeah, I'd go to Wednesday night pizza, half price pizza with all the wavers. Kenny. And then we'd go to the Surf Club on Friday, Saturday. And I remember we would get an allowance of five bucks a week, I think. So you know, and I think I think even then it might have cost five bucks to get in, which is kind of crazy. It's kind of high. So and then we'd also get five bucks for lunch for high school. So you know, $1 a day. And we would do all we could to just try to save that money and not spend it on lunch. So we're always going around mooching off people's leftovers. Because you know, you can't get you needed the $10 to go to the Surf Club, or something like that, you know, or bus fares, whatever. But I remember at some point, the Surf Club started charging a 50 cent re-entry fee, because probably they knew people were going out and drinking and doing drugs and coming back in. I didn't do anything like that. I was so naive and oblivious to all that. I think we did Vivarin, like Yeah, we'd have like, Vivarin pills and you’d take two and go freak out in the bathroom. But yeah, so I remember once it was 50 cents, it was great, because we were there so much, the door person couldn't remember if we'd already paid entry or not. So we would always just come up come a little late in the night and just be like, oh my God, how much does it cost to get in again? Ah, 50 cents? Okay. And then we saw then I started getting in for 50 cents. You know, you learn all the tricks.

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Kelsey Smith  32:52  

That was when it was the Pacific Surf Club Right? But nobody called it that, correct?

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Allison Wolfe  32:59  

i You're right. I think we just called it the Surf Club. And then later when it reopened as a punk venue, then it was called North Shore Surf Club. But I don't I think when I went to it, it wasn't North Shore Surf Club. It was just, Yeah, I guess Pacific Surf Club or the Surf Club is what we called it.

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Kelsey Smith  33:16  

It’s been very confusing because people keep people call both of them the Surf Club. So I'm always like, what year was that? I'm trying to figure that out.

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Allison Wolfe  33:24  

totally. Yeah. Well, this whole wave period of mine would have been 85. Also, maybe it's important to talk about my first concerts. I remember in middle school, when MTV had started [airing on the west coast]- that was probably 83. I mean it had already started, but you know, we when we got it in Olympia, Washington State or something. And we used to also get The Rocket, you know, weekly paper, which was in stores and stuff. So we'd read The Rocket and we'd watch MTV, and I remember seeing a Big Country video on MTV, you know, in a big country. And I think we saw in the Rocket that they were playing the Moore Theater in Seattle, on our birthday, which was November 9, and it's probably 83. Or maybe it was- yeah, we were turning 13. Anyways, we were like, oh, man, Mom, can we go to this for our 13th birthday? And it was first time I'm sure we asked to go to a concert or something. And my mom was like, I guess so. So she got us tickets and then decided to you know, drove us up to Seattle, dropped us off, at 13, Just Here you go. And her girlfriend was like, we'll just go have dinner with friends in Seattle and then we'll come back and pick you up after. So then, you know, we saw Big Country. Afterwards, I remember a whole gaggle of us all went out into the alley to hang outside of their tour bus and be like- and we were out there just it was so fun with all these people just being like [makes cooing noise]. But finally, someone who worked at the theater was like, hey, the band is in the lobby waiting to sign autographs, but y'all are out here. No one's in there. We're like, so we didn't realize how easy it was and how accessible they were so we all ran into the lobby and met them. I'm sure we didn't buy any merch. We didn't have any money. So we probably had them sign a napkin or something. But I remember I think Cindy like either kissed Stuart Adamson the singer’s hand, or bit him. Something crazy, something happened. And I remember my mom and her girlfriend were kind of waiting in the wings for and I think she just came up and grabbed us and was like God dammit and just dragged us out of there. So then the next concert we went to was probably like a year later. And that was Duran Duran at the Coliseum in Seattle. And this time, someone else's mom, I think Heather Boe, her mom took us. And I remember thinking- because we were big Duranimals by then- I knew all the lyrics, everything. And I remember thinking like, Heather is not even into Duran, we’re Duranimals, but whatever. But you know, her mom's taking us so whatever. And we went, our friend Staci Woodruff also went. So it was me, Cindy, Heather, Staci Woodruff And Heather's mom. And this was huge. Like, I didn't realize it was an arena. You know, the Coliseum was an arena concert. And I couldn't see because I didn't wear glasses. Even though I should have. I was always losing my glasses. So anyways, so I was way back in nosebleed and kind of going ugh. But Cindy and our friend Staci were brave. And they were like, fuck it. They're pushing up front. So they went down to the floor. This is back when everything was- you had seats. But even if you had seats, you could go down to general admission. So they went down there. And somehow they managed to weasel their way all the way to the front. But they said it was crazy screaming, preteen girls, or whatever. And I think that Staci got so squished that she actually ended up passing out and had to get handed up over the top. Like, you know, that happened. And then gets thrown out and it was constantly you could see it. It was happening the whole concert to people. But I remember Cindy telling me later that she was so bummed because you know, every girl had to grab a Duran. Like, Okay, this one's mine. That one's yours. You know, whatever. And no one could have the same one. So you had to choose. So John Taylor, the bassist, was mine. Cindy was into Simon and who knows who Staci and Heather were into. But anyways, but they were bummed because when they pushed to the front, they got in front of John Taylor. And they were like, Oh, he's not- we didn't even like him. And but my sister's impression was that she was like, I couldn't believe actually how dumpy he was dressed. She was just like, yeah, it was kind of crazy. Like he was wearing like dirty sweatpants or something. She was just like, yeah, it was kind of weird. But that was her impression, which is weird, because they were so known for dressing up. But you know, he's married to the Juicy Couture woman, so maybe it was even cool tracksuits back then, and we didn't think it was cool. Yeah, who knows. But like he wasn't married then, I'm sure. But I ended up reading John Taylor’s- part of his memoir. And I got to that chapter where it turns out that that was their first arena show in the US ever. So they hadn't been playing that size of places in the US yet. And they had just done a tour in Japan, Rolling Stone had just put them on the cover and called them the Fab Five, and everything changed overnight. And all of a sudden, their Seattle date, which was the first US Date of that tour, it was basically Seven and the Ragged Tiger album era tour. But it was called something else, Sing Blue Silver tour or something like that. That tour was called. Um, but anyway, so all of a sudden, they're in the Seattle arena. And he wrote about that concert that I went to in his book, like, he didn't really dedicate that much to certain shows, and he was saying that the screaming of the girls was so loud, that they couldn't even hear themselves. They couldn't hear each other on stage. They couldn't hear; they had no idea if they were in time with each other. They were just like, it was insane. And I was like, yeah! So anyways.

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Kelsey Smith  39:26  

I was also really into them and I think I went to see them maybe that same tour, but I think I think I was a senior or something. But I remember Simon Le Bon like tripping on the stage on a cord. It was probably like 85,86 Somewhere around there, I'm trying to remember- I was in high school as well.

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Allison Wolfe  39:48  

In my mind, it was 85 because I just can't believe that I would have been ended around around after that. Because I think it was like Seven and the Ragged Tiger. Okay. That's it, after that I didn't pay attention at all anymore. Like anything after Seven and the Ragged Tiger is late model Duran Duran to me. So it's kind of funny. Like I was I see them every [now and then], like, I went and saw them at the Hollywood Bowl. And I was like, Oh, they mostly played “newer” songs. And I was with Molly from Bratmobile, and she was like, “Wild Boys!” She's like, those aren't new songs, but I'm like, they're new to me. And she's like, What are after like, 85? I'm like, Yeah. But anywho, It was kind of amazing. And eventually, I ended up meeting this woman, who's friends with my mom, they lived in the same neighborhood. I mean, years later, like in the 90s, and we got to walking around the neighborhood. And I was talking about that concert and everything and the woman was talking about having to take her daughter to the Spice Girls. And I was like, oh, man, and she was like, I can't stand the Spice Girls. I don't want to go. She was like, you know, I came up on it and all this. [??? I’d need to listen to it to know what I said?] But she was like, Well, I got to do it. And we talked about it for a while. And I told her about Duran Duran and everything. And I was like, Well, you know what, at least like, young girls now have some girls that they can look up to on stage because with Duran Duran, we were just like, Oh, if he would ever date me, I know he won't, but you know, you want to go out with the guy in the band. But at least the Spice Girls you might be able to- I mean, I'm not saying you wouldn't want to go out with them too. But I'm just saying, you know, maybe for like, say like, straight girls or whatever. You know, you might be able to envision yourself up on stage- and go out with them, whatever. But um, but obviously, Duran Duran wasn't helping girls think that they could be in a band. Spice Girls, maybe? Well, they also took “girl power” from riot grrrl but whatever. But you know, we were talking about that. But that woman was like, oh my god, I was at that Duran Duran concert. I was working and I was like, what? And she was like, Yeah, I was working catering. I lived in Seattle at the time at that concert. It was crazy. She just said like, little teeny girls were coming out of the woodwork like they're hiding in the weirdest places and they would steal the empty coke can or whatever that Simon had just drank off and go Oh, my God, he drank off this. You know? She just said it was nuts. Anyways, so there's that. And that was kind of good, you know, my getting into music but then I was also really into Joan Jett  And Missing Persons and the B-52s and the Go-Go’s and all that stuff. And all those bands also were pretty influential to me in a way, they were kind of – especially Bow Wow Wow was kind of wacky and stuff and fun and I mean, it still didn't necessarily make me think I could do it because, as you know, that big schism between punk and new wave- but part of it was that the new wave was mainstream by then and you know, and you still you didn't really think oh, well, there's some machine behind this, you know. Eventually I started going to punk parties… And then punk shows and stuff and Olympia was a good place to do that because you know, our kind of Hometown Heroes- well, we had bands like Danger Mouse and Donna Dresch was the bassist I remember. There was like the Go Team and Doris, Tobi's all girl band with Heidi something. I can't remember. She was really funny. And she had red hair and she skated. But anyways, but I remember those. I don't know if I actually saw her, I must have, I don't know. But like I wasn't “in” in the punk rock scene, I was a little bit of an outsider. And of course, people I think, knew I was a new waver. So of course, you know, punks were really rude to wavers. You know, it was a real schism at that time. They were very rude to me for a long time… or not nice or intimidating or something. But I remember Tobi, seeing her around and I remember Donna and eventually I saw that they both did zines and stuff. But I'd go see Danger Mouse, I'd see... Slim Moon was in a band called Lush, not the British one. But whatever. I'd go see them. I really liked them. There was Fitz of Depression. There are some Tacoma bands. So one thing is that like, people often talk about the Seattle scene, right? Well, Seattle had these really restrictive dance ordinances that were basically like, if you're not 18 You can't go to shows. It was kind of basically that, it was because there were goth runaways. Like okay, all these conservative parents had goth runaway kids who were like hanging on Broadway dropping out or whatever. And so they decided, oh we’ll legislate against this instead of maybe trying to figure out how to have a relationship with the kids. So it in effect shut down all these venues that could be all ages in Seattle... so Seattle’s scene was sort of half dead in the water, if you're underage…

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Kelsey Smith  45:30  

Feel free give yourself a break and like, drink some water and I can pause when you want.

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Allison Wolfe  45:38  

Okay, maybe I’ll just suck on a cough drop… sorry, I'm bouncing all over the place. So, I mean, you might have to move some stuff around and make it make sense. Sorry about that. But that's kind of how my brain has been- anyways, so the the Seattle dance ordinances... So really, for a fair amount of high school going to shows, I mean, we had some places in Olympia. But Olympia stuff would shut down not because of the laws, but just because there wasn't always enough people to keep the place afloat. You know, as you probably know, it still happens. So Tacoma was really this kind of special meeting place where people from Seattle would come down to go to shows and then people Olympia would go up to go to shows. So it was the Community World Theater in, I think South Tacoma, basically. Jim May ran that place. And it was awesome. I loved going to shows there. So I started going to shows there. And because I wasn't really a Tropicana person- I mean, I might have been to the Tropicana once, but I was still a waver- because I think that Tropicana was only open for one year. And that was the year I was going to the Surf Club. So I'm pretty much so yeah, and then and like I said, the punks were not nice to wavers. So that wasn't cool. So I was like, I'm going there by myself. I could have gone with Cristina though, actually. I might have. Anyways, so there we were, you know, going into the community world, the Community World Theatre. I remember Neko case worked the door. I do remember that. That was cool... we were lucky because everything was so regional back then. So the bands we got to see all the time were like the Melvins. You know, I mean, they were in Aberdeen. But they weren't playing shows really in Aberdeen. They were coming to Olympia, Tacoma, Seattle to play shows, well, mostly Tacoma and Olympia. So I got to see the Melvins a lot. And then of course, once Nirvana got going- Nirvana was not called nirvana. When I was in high school, they were called Skid Row. So I got to see Skid Row around, you know, at Community World, but also at this place called GESCCO. I remember Nirvana's first show. And it was their first show in Olympia. And it was Skid Row, their first show in Olympia. And it was at this place called GESCCO, which stood for something Evergreen student, whatever, it was a student project. And it was just this warehouse that would have shows, it was fun though, I like going there. I saw Malfunkshun there too, which really blew me away. It's interesting with Malfunkshun, because I think they were just kind of like a glam band, which was an 80s glam thing. But because I'd never seen that before, I didn't really understand what that was. I should have it was on MTV, but like, but I was just like- I thought they were in drag. And I thought they were like, kind of a queer drag band. And I was so into that. I was like, Oh, this is so cool. Malfunkshun. Yeah. And I remember a few years, you know, several years later, when I was talking to Slim about it, “I saw Malfunkshun, and they were so cool. Because they were this first kind of like, gay, male drag band or something,”  and he was like, what, that's what you got out of it? And I was like, yeah, and he's like, no, they're total bros. And I was like, what? So anyways, you take what you want out of something. But yeah, so I remember this show with Skid Row. And there were not many people there. I mean, I always say, oh, there couldn't have been more than 20 people there. But I remember it was the first night I stayed out on a school night to see a show and it was the first night Nirvana/Skid Row played in town. And it was really great. There weren't many people there. I remember seeing Tobi, I was looking at some pile of wood. Like, you know, weird construction junk all over the warehouse. And I remember I was there alone, so I didn't have any friends. So I was staring at a pile of wood. And all of a sudden I hear this voice behind me like, “hey,” and I look at its Tobi and I was like, aaah! and I was scared of her. So I was like, oh, there's a weird girl, and I ran off or something. But anyways, I do remember thinking that Skid Row/Nirvana was really great. And I remember in my mind, just being like, this band is gonna be really big. There was this appeal to it that seemed really kind of heavy, like almost Zeppelin-esque or something to me. But anyways, that's fun. Community World Theater was really fun. Also a lot of the bands we saw would be like, No Means No, they came through town a lot from so bounce from Vancouver would come down, SNFU played a lot... I remember one time at Community Theater, I think it was a it was a Melvins Nirvana show, I think? Something, I might be making that up. But one of those two bands was playing. And I remember that Aaron Stauffer who was in Spook and the Zombies later to be in Seaweed, He’d always lived around Tacoma…Steillacoom, but almost Tacoma. And he would come to shows a lot at Community World. And I remember he was there, and he had gotten a new leather jacket, and he had painted on it. So it'd be ready for the show. Like, you know, it was gonna be like Melvins, and the flower image, but he's dysgraphic and has some spelling and writing issues, and and he wrote “Mevins,” So he left the L out, but it was painted on his leather jacket. And I remember, we all thought that was so funny. And then Kurt Cobain ended up naming his cat Mevins after that incident. So that was pretty funny. Yeah, so that was fun. All that. Anyway, so I'm trying to think what else, let's move on from high school.

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Kelsey Smith  52:10  

Do you want me to ask you a question?… This is all amazing. “Mevins,” I didn't know that. And that show. That first show with Skid Row. I think that was at the Surf Club, correct? 

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Allison Wolfe  No, it was at GESCCO.  

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Kelsey Smith  Oh, that's right. It was at GESCCO? And then I remember that was, I think the first time they actually called themselves Nirvana. Was that the Surf Club?

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Allison Wolfe  52:44  

Yeah. So I don't know when they changed their name to Nirvana actually, because I went away. And I was an exchange student in Thailand for one year. So I left, I graduated from high school in ‘88. And then within one month, I had to go to Thailand, because they had a different school year thing. So I had to get there as quick as possible. So I was in Thailand from like July of...1988, until, like, not quite a year, maybe like April or May, probably May, April or May of 1989. So whatever happened,

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Kelsey Smith  53:28  

Actually, that's actually one of the questions that I have on here. So while while you're kind of going in that direction... So like many others being interviewed for this project, as a teen and young adult, you spent time in Olympia and other locations, including Thailand, Eugene, DC, and LA. Can you talk about what made Olympia appealing as a home base of sorts for yourself and so many other musicians, but you can also talk about your time in those places if you’d like.

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Allison Wolfe  54:02  

Thailand, it's like a long story. But anyways, I was an exchange student there, basically kind of repeating my 12th grade year because I had already graduated. Mostly I just focused on learning language, culture, stuff like that. So like, it was really, really fun, really awesome in a lot of ways. Difficult and others, but, you know, it was good. But I do feel like I missed on this whole Nirvana thing because I remember coming back and I just, you know, obviously I'd grown a lot then and I felt so different when I came back. So I basically returned like late spring, early summer 1989. And I started hanging out downtown with friends of mine, Sue Fox and stuff who lived they had a group house downtown these girls was like Tiffany, Sue, and Desiree. I think I got I'm sorry. Sorry, I'm not with the last names but Sue Fox, okay. I was good friends with Sue Fox. We had a like a kind of a girl, gang group in high school, especially senior year where we’d go up to Seattle a lot and it was me, Kim Hummel, Laura Hammersmith- I'm still friends with her- and Sue Fox and us four was hanging out together and we'd go up to Seattle and sometimes drop acid on Broadway [and go to] shows and stuff like that. Those guys could drive- I didn't know how to drive, I was by far the most immature of the group. So when I came back from Thailand, I was hanging out with Sue and stuff downtown and everyone was talking about this band Nirvana. Let's go see Nirvana. I was like, Who's that? And then when we went to see them. I remember being like, Oh, you mean Skid Row and people are like, who's that? and yeah, it was confusing to me. Anyways, by then Kathleen Hanna had moved to Olympia and was going to Evergreen or had probably had gone that whole year I was away. I think she's like a year older than me. And she had- her and Tammy Ray, I guess had this space downtown. Reko Muse. So a lot of shows were happening there that summer, so I would go down there a lot. I remember I'd see Kathleen Hanna around town on the bus. And she looked like Tank Girl. I think she had a shaved head or something. combat boots. She scared the hell out of me. But you know, people who scare me, you know, you're paying attention, right? You notice them, And eventually you're going to be friends with them... I remember one time going to a show there. I think Slim's band was playing and he said he'd put me on the list. And she would let me come in on the list, I had to pay and she was real… not nice to me. But I found out later, I think that he was kind of dating both of us at the same time. And I didn't know, and maybe she knew. Anyways, so Slim, there you go. That's in public.

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Kelsey Smith  57:11  

That would be Slim Moon, correct. 

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Allison Wolfe  57:16  

SLIM MOON! You know, whatever, who does not like not like I even knew how to go out with anyone at the time.

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Kelsey Smith  57:23  

Let’s try to get those last names.

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Allison Wolfe  57:26  

I think also I dated Al Larsen too of Some Velvet Sidewalk later in that summer, too. Yeah, I remember my mom was not into any of it. She was like, What's wrong with these guys? You go out with, they’re like shell shocked or something! [luaghing] She just thought they were weird. Like, okay, well, they're too old for me, probably. But you know, in retrospect, To me they seemed so much older, but they're probably just like maybe one or two years older. [laughing] So that was a really fruitful summer, I was working like four jobs all downtown, all minimum wage, just so I could save up to go to college. I was set to go to University of Oregon in Eugene, by fall.

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Kelsey Smith  58:14  

If you’re able to mention where you worked, that would be really cool to hear.

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Allison Wolfe  58:18  

Oh, okay. So I worked... One of my jobs. The most grueling, I think was at Plum Street Deli, which, I don't know if it still exists, but it's in a state building. It was a cafe that served a state building basically. That's right on Plum Street. Probably pretty much across from the gas station there. I just made sandwiches and I guess worked the register. And it was funny because you had to take a food handlers test and get a card for that. And I remember the manager was like, Oh, you just have to get this so that we have it on file. It's all stuff you already know. And I remember that video blowing my mind and learning so much that I never knew about food storage and everything. And I was like, Oh, I learned a lot from that. And then I realized that my mom never used to put things in the fridge. And yeah, she was would like make food leftovers. Leftovers are like you put a lid on the pot and leave it on the stove and you eat it again the next day. And I cannot tell you how often I threw up as a kid. And I always felt guilty because my mom would have to come help me and clean it up. And it would always be the grossest stuff I was throwing up and I had a big shag carpet from the 70s- so gross, sorry, disgusting. But you know, I always felt so bad and guilty. And then later in life, I was like, you know, someone- a friend of hers came home and was like, Pat, you never put anything in the fridge and she was like, I know, you don't have to! I mean, come on. And I was like, Wait a second!!- that's why I was throwing up all the time as a kid. Oh my God, it is your fault. So I learned a lot with my food handlers test and video. And then I also worked at Time After Time, the vintage clothing store that Maggie Murphy owned. And Margaret Dougherty, I think. And that was awesome. I loved working there. And then I also worked for Joe Tugis, he had a sign company. So I would sit there and sand letters and signs and he was really sweet. Like I also babysat for him for, his kids- Joe and Karen, Karen Loman. And Joe Tougas- their kids, Sam and Mona. I used to babysit them and I would play Beat Happening cassettes all the time. And once it repeat a couple times, you know, you had the cassette player that would just repeat and go on, you know, over and over, over again. Flip over. They learned all the lyrics to every song within just like two takes or something. It was kind of crazy. And we'd make applesauce together. That was fun. Yeah, Joe and Karen taught me how to make applesauce. anyways. But I'd be working on signs. But sometimes I think the paint would get to me and I didn't wear a mask. And I was kind of getting high off the fumes. And then I'd go to my job at Time After Time, and I’d just be all out of it and dizzy. And Maggie's like, I don't know if this is legal, something's going on there. You need a respirator something. And then also probably no, probably the most traumatic job was I worked at this woman's house, there was this couple who would sell splatter painted clothing at like weekend fairs, street fairs and things like that. So I would go in the garage and splatter paint the clothing and to me it was just like like to horrible 80s New Wave stuff, or not new wave, but 80s mainstream crap. So I hated it. And I would make it. It's funny, because I would love to have some of that stuff now. But at the time, I was like, This is so ugly and gross. And then sometimes they'd make me babysit their kid who would projectile vomit all the time, they had a little baby. It was gnarly. So that Job was gnarly, because I would have to paint and then I would also have to get up at the crack of dawn and help sell at weekend fairs and stuff. It was like, oh my god... anyway, four jobs. And then by the end of the summer, I had hardly any money to show for it. But I do remember by the end of the summer, I remember walking by Reko Muse once and hearing some noise coming out of it. And I was like, Oh, I didn't know there was a show tonight. And I kind of peeked in the doorway. And Kathleen was in there with her band which was Viva Knievel at the time. And that had like Matt Zodrow was in the band and this woman Louise- I can't remember her last name, but she was the bassist in this Australian band, her and her brother. They're Australian. She had been the bassist in this band Matrimony, which is a great band from Sydney, Australia from the 80s. Anyways, so they were in there playing -I can't remember if it was a practice or show. If it were a show, there was almost no one there. So it might have just been in practice. But I remember just watching Kathleen and she was screaming at the top of her lungs. And there are all these songs like “boy poison” and “give me a spanking” and stuff. And I just remember… her face was red and veins are popping out of her neck and I just thought- it made such an impression on me because it wasn't pretty, it wasn't cute. It was like she clearly didn't care, she let it all hang out. So that made a big impression on me. And then also that summer, I got dropped off downtown after having dinner with my mom and her friends and like Calamity Jane, an all girl band who were all going to Evergreen at the time, they played and I watched them and they were more snarly garage kinda, and that made a big impression on me. And then I ended up going away to school, fall of 89 to Eugene, Oregon, University of Oregon. And that's where I met Molly Neuman in the dorms. So we both lived in the same dorm, we were neighbors in the dorm- I mean I you know you had to share with someone so I shared with someone and she shared with someone else. But we shared a wall so our beds were on either side of the wall. But I remember that first day on campus in the dorms after my mom left or whatever dropped me off. There was one payphone in the hall, right, we didn't have phones then. But there's one payphone in the Hall of each floor. And I remember Molly Neuman was hogging the phone, she was on the phone for at least an hour yelling at the top of her lungs, breaking up with some guy clearly, and not happy about it. [laughing] And she scared me and I remember be like, Whoa, and she was like, fast East Coast talking girl, you know, she's from DC. And I was like, Whoa, what's up with her? And so we became fast friends. And it was kind of cool. It was like, I kind of brought this DIY- I had all my Olympia K tapes and all that stuff that I was into, and I brought, Go Team, whatever, all that stuff- Oklahoma Scramble, Spook and the Zombies. So I brought all that kind of stuff to the table. And she was this very politicized person, like in a more national politics kind of way. Her dad had worked for- as a PR person, I think- for the Carter administration. He was a Democrat and worked in all this, like, PR and writing and speech writing and things like that. I think. So she had been involved in all these kind of nonprofit activist stuff, as you know, in high school and stuff like that. She didn't really come from the punk scene, she actually kind of came from the Go-Go scene in DC. And Molly had used to go to a lot of Go-Go concerts and things like that. So I kind of, you know, brought the punk and the DIY, and she kind of brought this more like, kind of politically aware kind of thing. Even though I'd grown up in a very, like, Lefty liberal household. I think I took a lot of it for granted, you know, and I didn't really talk about politics much, and things like that. So I think Molly kind of brought that to the table. And we both started taking very politicized courses and political courses. You know, like women's studies, there was a class called Ethnic Studies, there was a class called Crisis in Central America, there was a class called Asian American Women In Culture. And you know, I took all these classes. And we would also sit around and just kind of scheme and we would hang out in the bathroom. There was one big bathroom on each floor, because it was like, women, each floor was divided by gender, I guess. And like, the bathrooms were huger than anything else. And they had huge countertops that you could sit on. So we just hung out in the bathroom all the time, just like with our notepads, and we just bring our little you know, whatever Walkman or whatever the hell and listen to music and stuff or a little boombox. Anyways, so we came up with this idea for Bratmobile long before we ever really were a band, before we did anything else. I think it was before we went home for the holidays for that, you know, before the New Year. Oh. And then stupidly, we moved out of the dorms after fall quarter.

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Kelsey Smith  1:07:57  

Can you remind me of what year this is, too?

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Allison Wolfe  1:08:00  

Fall of 89 was when we both started as freshmen at University of Oregon. And then you know, we're moving into '90 when we came back after the holidays, living in some horrible hippie house at the end of the earth of Eugene, with these like just awful dudes anyways, whatever. They let their dog shit all over the carpet, and it was really expensive. It was on top of a really steep hill. We'd have to go wait, at the end of the bus line. Oddly enough, I think the house was very close to the house that I lived in when I was there living there in third grade. It was in the same neighborhood. I recognized a lot of stuff. So it probably was traumatic as well that way. Anyways, but then we so anyways, we just kind of like we're like, okay, Eugene is this really hippie place we want to bring, we want it to be more punk and interesting, how can we do that. But we also hung out at the Student Union a lot. And we made friends with all the people at all the different student centers, you know, and we'd just sit around and talk politics and stuff. So one person who I'm still friends with today and who really was influential in our lives was Eric Ward. And I'm pretty sure he was part of the African American student union or student center or student group. I don't know what you call it. And yeah, you know, I'm friends with him still. And he's actually like, you know, we I went to a conference that he put on recently and actually his organization, I got a fellowship from their organization, Western State Center, lots of cool stuff. So anyways, he really helped kind of politicized us in a lot of ways too. He was a little bit older than us. And I do remember though, being in our Women's Studies class, that we would use the term “girl” a lot. Now by this time we were going up to Olympia a lot on weekends and hanging out and spending time with like Calvin, Candice, Tobi, Donna, probably, and definitely Bikini Kill had just started, we're getting started and stuff. And so we would hang out with Kathleen and Tobi a lot and just talk, you know. Just networking, you know, and they were really encouraging us to start something, like a zine or a band or something, you know. So that's probably why we kind of started these things. But they were in the infant stage... But I remember being in our women's studies classes, which are cool and informative. But I remember we would often talk about ourselves, or, you know, anecdotes that were we would use the word girl, like, when girls do this, or boys do that, you know, whatever. And I remember, we were often getting corrected, usually by other students, who would just be like, it's woman, woman, woman, you know, and we were just like, oh, but we're like teenagers, and we feel young. And so I think it started kind of coming into our heads. What about what about the lives of younger Girls, actually? And why is it only feminists use... why do you have to use the word woman and all this stuff. And I think we were basically reacting a little bit to this kind of- the rules that we felt of second wave feminism, and not that we were against it, rebelling against it, but just like, let's make it more inclusive. And I think that that's in effect, what riot grrrl ended up being was a feminism that was inclusive and uplifting of the lives of young girls- like teen bedroom culture, girly stuff that was always getting dismissed. Not like we don't need to be as you know, like, women are as good as the man or better, whatever, you know, but how about the entirety of what women's and girls lives can look like. And it's valued on its own, doesn't have to be compared to men or like men or whatever. Also, sex positive, and sex worker positive feminism as well. Like, you know, like, why you can be a sex worker and still be a feminist and be politically aware or even if you're not politically aware, you still have rights, whatever. You know, makeup skirts, all this thing, you can be “femmey” and still be a feminist, you know, all that. So I think that's kind of what we were trying to do, and also making our punk rock worlds more feminist like, Okay, people were still getting moshed on and injured at shows. We still didn't feel comfortable being in the front, you know. I remember, especially through the 80s, I was a wallflower at punk shows, I didn't want to get landed on. And then also wanting more representation of girls and women on stage and in all all spheres of the punk scene. We're not just a photographers, or even the zine writers necessarily or... holding the boyfriend's coat. We're on stage. Those were the goals. Anyway, so that's kind of how riot grrrl got started. We didn't call it riot grrrl, I think for quite a while, but it was in essence riot grrrl. And I don't know. Also, I think that so I feel like a lot of riot grrrl was a reaction to grunge…Okay, so, one thing about riot grrrl is at least for me, I felt like it was also somewhat of a reaction to grunge, which had completely infiltrated or taken over the whole northwest by 90, you know, like, because it was started obviously a lot earlier in the northwest and then spread around the country and world I guess. But it was already in full swing by the 80s, You know, end of the 80s. So it was a reaction to grunge somewhat, I think in a lot of ways. We felt like grunge was this kind of long haired flannel dressed sexism, you know, just a new outfit, but also with Sub Pop and all their imagery and like oh, it's so edgy to have like naked women and blood and you know, basically kind of this violence against women kind of stuff. That was cool imagery, you know, sexy, you know, whatever, you have Twin Peaks and all this stuff. It's always like, you know, and like Kathleen once wrote, the most beautiful girl is a dead girl, you know, and that still happens. It's still like, the center of every story, mystery story or whatever. It's some dead woman, you know? Anyways, so I think we took a lot of that seriously... we might not even know how to play but we have something to say. And it's still, at least the lyrics are going to be more interesting than most of this crap that guys are doing. And also there was a little bit of pushback against love rock, which I think love rock was important as this kind of whole K Records love rock scene. I think it was a way for mostly men, I guess, but a lot of people to kind of be like, well, we don't have to be macho bros, you know, and we can talk about our feelings and all that, which I think is important. But I think at some point, we're like, okay, yeah, well, all you guys can do the opposite of what your gender has been told to do by being emo and soft. And you know, cutesy wutesy. But we're angry. So maybe the girls are going to do what opposite of what's expected of our gender, like being nice and sweet and happy. Okay, we're pissed off. So we're gonna get aggressive while you guys get soft, whatever. But so we were kind of like, enough with the love rock. How about hate rock? [laughing] So there's kind of an element of that as well. Which I think is also kind of Where Kill Rock Stars comes in a little bit. I feel like they kind of took up all the bands that were a little bit more into getting a little more aggro than K Records stuff. [laughing] I don't know, whatever, us pissed off women. But you know, I think back to it. And I think, you know, Olympia was really the perfect place for us to kind of do our thing because there was such a history of DIY. And you know, really, thanks to people like Calvin Johnson and K Records and people like Candice and Maggie Murphy, and just a lot of people doing really cool things around town, Stella Mars, Margaret Doherty. And also just like, there's a big lesbian community there, too. You know, there's a lot of… Nancy Sigafoos, all these people- like, women owned businesses. And then, it was fairly cheap to live there and you could kind of just make stuff happen and you had support of a community and it was kind of affordable to do so, and stuff. And for sure, like when Bratmobile played our first show, it was Valentine's Day 1991. I think earlier that winter, you know, 90 We had been asked by Calvin to come up from Eugene and play, and we've been going to Olympia for a while. And you know, visiting and bragging that we're in a band, Bratmobile, but we never really played or really had songs [laughing].

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Calvin kind of called our bluff and said, “come up and play the show on Valentine's Day, opening for Bikini Kill and Some Velvet Sidewalk.” And we're like, what we can't, we're not a band. He's like, “Well, you always come here and say you are.” So yeah. So we're just like, Aaah! so we're just like, What the hell do we do now? I think Molly bought like, maybe Molly already had a guitar. She might have bought a drum set or something. I don't know. But like Molly was taking or was about to take guitar lessons something and then this band Oswald five oh, Robert Christie was in that band. He gave us the keys to their practice space and said here are you guys can use this to write songs because I went to him was like, what do we do? And then he was like, and and I was like, Okay, thanks for the practice. You’ll give us our gear and the space? But then I was like, well now how do we write the songs and he was like, I don't know. Just listen to Ramones records. And yeah, to this day I still don't own a Ramones record because I was like, Oh, I don't want to sound like the Ramones. We gotta sound different. Like, we didn't know.

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Kelsey Smith  1:18:34  

You were in Eugene, right?

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Allison Wolfe  1:18:38  

Yeah, we were still in Eugene. Okay, So this is like 1990 When that went down, and we were just like, oh, I don't want to sound like the Ramones. So I'm not even gonna listen to the Ramones. But like, we had not anywhere near the skill, or ones, or anything else. So Eric, and then Molly bought a car, a Galaxie 500 That looked like a muscle car. So it's probably late 60s model, red, it was awesome. But she bought that- lead, not unleaded. She bought that out of the newspaper, something like a few $100. And then it had bald tires and the interior lights didn't work, whatever. So we somehow made it to Olympia for our first show at the Surf Club. And we show up and Corin Tucker was waiting there with the Super Eight camera and she asked if she can film it, and I was like, Oh my God, you're that girl. I've met you before. So I had first met Corin Tucker at a YMCA camp when I think we were both still in high school. It was some kind of regional meeting of YMCA people, I don't know, youth. And me and my friend Dana younguns. Went down to- Dana was later in a band called... CWA, comes with attitude. Yeah, so me and Dana, in high school went down to this Y symposium thing and like to eugene And we met Corin Tucker there. So I met her in high school. And then I think when Molly and I were in Eugene go into school, I think it was fall of 89. There, the Pixies- yeah must have been the Pixies and Bob Mould played on campus at U of O and I believe it was 89. It was Halloween night. We were dressed up as you know, whatever I was dressed up as a polka dot Molly was dressed up as a Beatnik. And three little witches came over to us and said, Hey, remember me? And it was Corin Tucker and Tracy Sawyer, and another friend of theirs all dressed up as three little witches. And I was like, Oh, my God, you're the girl from Y camp. So I met her again. And then the third time I saw her was asking to interview us at our first show. And she was going to Evergreen by then. So she's from Eugene, but went to school in Olympia. I was from Olympia and went to school in Eugene. And so she has the film of that. I don't know, I still haven't seen it, I don't think. And I just remember being on stage. And it was really just me and Molly, like, you know, I had a guitar, but I couldn't play and sing at the same time. So I think Molly would switch off between guitar and drums. And I would sing and I think I sort of played guitar on maybe part of Girl Germs. I don't know something. Or maybe not. I think I played a little bit of guitar on something but mostly it just hung around my neck. But I just remember being on stage and we maybe have five songs and thinking like, wait a second are we a band?. Wait, are these songs? Does this count? But we were so fortunate to be cheered on by people like Bikini Kill and Calvin and whoever, you know, Slim and whoever, just like this community really encouraged us because I'm sure it was total shit. But as soon as we finished, I remember right after we got off stage, Slim came up and said “I want to use that song ‘Girl Germs’ that you played for a compilation I'm gonna put out in the summer, okay?” Pat, Maley ... was like, “Can I record you guys this weekend?” Okay. And then I remember Kurt Cobain walked in the room. So he missed our set. And I was like you just missed out. And he was like, sorry. And then I gave him our fanzine. So we had our first issue of Girl Germs ready to go. And so I handed him the first issue of Girl Germs. And I would like to say that we did start doing the fanzine before the band, because it was the most accessible thing to do. Like we weren't, you know, before we knew how to play anything or write songs or whatever. And I think the first issue how to interview with Calamity Jane in it and so we featured an interview with a band that had a girl member each issue. you know, zines are very, you know, just kind of scrappy, quickly made, urgent, whatever types of things, you know, disposable, not meant to be preserved forever, like they are sadly. Anyways. Yeah, so that was our first show. And then we just started getting asked to do stuff. I mean, our second show was opening for the Melvins. Oh, yeah. You have an issue number two that has the Seven Year Bitch interview, I think.

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Kelsey Smith  1:23:29  

I was looking for it while you were talking.

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Allison Wolfe  1:23:32  

Yeah, I think so. Oh, I love that interview with Seven Year Bitch.

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Kelsey Smith  1:23:35  

I’ve got the first one scanned from the Seattle Public Library... if you want to see it again...

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Allison Wolfe  1:23:44  

No, I don't. no thank you. No, but yeah, I love Seven Year Bitch. So yeah, you know, it's interesting. There was a lot of bands that we really loved. Like, you know, we loved L7. We loved Babes in Toyland. We loved- I love Seven Year Bitch. You know, the Gits, Mia Zapata. There's just a lot of regional bands I really loved and of course, like, you know, beat happening and the Go Team and Bikini Kill and stuff. But, you know, I, now I really feel for a lot of bands that were kind of thrown into the riot grrrl box, just because they were women in music, and especially if they were kind of regional. But I sort of felt like there became this almost Seattle versus Olympia thing. Where it was like, Seattle looked at all the Olympia people like, “Oh, they're just love rock and riot grrrls, and they're just too soft, you know? And we're up here just doing all the hard drugs and everything.[laughing]  We’re tough.” But I think part of it was that lazy journalists couldn't think beyond Oh, if you're a girl in music you must be riot grrrl. And really tried to put a lot of these kind of tougher Seattle women in that box. And they didn't like it, or they just didn't identify with it, it wasn't their thing. And then I think the media would try to kind of pit us against each other. You know, so it was just, you know, a cat fight for the media that we weren't. I don't think any of us were perpetuating, but we were kind of used that way by editors and writers and stuff. So, lazy journalists. And then of course, later that summer anyways, you know, by then we'd met Nation of Ulysses and all this kind of stuff, and we're going to DC, Molly is from Washington, DC. And then we ended up connecting with Erin Smith, who is also from Bethesda, Maryland, DC area. And so that spring, that's right, that spring, we went to DC, Molly and I flew back there for spring break. And we met up with Erin and we started jamming with her right away and kind of formed this, you know- did Bratmobile in DC, went to the Embassy House, jammed with Christina Billotte as well, who's in Autoclave- later Slant Six, and Jean Smith(?), who later was in a band The Quills but she just lived in this house. So we all kind of were in the basement doing stuff and hanging out.

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Kelsey Smith  1:26:23  

This was 1992 Correct?

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Allison Wolfe  1:26:27  

91, still 91. So yeah, it's weird how quickly things kind of started happening. So that was spring break, then Beat Happening were on the East Coast doing a mini northeast tour with Nation of Ulysses and we decided to follow them. Molly borrowed her dad's car ad said we were going to be spending the night out in Bethesda at Erin’s. But instead we drove all up and down all over the East Coast following the Beat Happening/Ulysses shows. We met Chia Pet who were a band extension of Sassy magazine, the girls from Sassy magazine. We gave them our zine, and then they ended up featuring it. I believe it. I think it might have been the first zine of the month, or maybe- I feel like we were either the first zine of the month or the first cute band alert or something like that. I might be wrong, but I am just gonna say that, that we were the first. I don't know. You know, and then later Ian was sassiest boy in America, whatever. So it was fun. All that. And then of course, later, Molly's dad checked the gas or the odometer and was like, where did you go? It was cool, He never said anything, To his credit. He let it slide for a while. Oh, it wasn't until Sassy magazine featured us as our zine and then Molly's dad called her and was like, “um, I was wondering what was up with the odometer” because they said how they met us in the magazine. So we're like, “Oops.” Yeah.

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Kelsey Smith  1:28:05  

What happened to Molly's Galaxie 500? Was it dead by then?

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Allison Wolfe  1:28:09  

No, that car actually met a really awful fate. It it was. We used it for a long time. But then once we actually started touring, we did our first tour in summer of 1992, which I booked with long distance calls which were very expensive and postcards to confirm. Yeah. So yeah, but we use my car, I had a ‘79 Pontiac Catalina that we ended up touring in. That became the Bratmobile. And Molly sold her Galaxie 500 to Michelle Mae, who was you know, later in the Frumpies and then the Makeup, and she ended up moving to DC and, and eventually- Oh, it's a terrible story… the car had been in their open garage in the alley for like, probably a year. She went to go sell it in the paper, she had listed it in the paper she needed to go take it to get you know, detailed or clean up or whatever. And she found a dead body in there. Yeah, it's terrible. A woman had been murdered and put in and stuffed in the car. Yeah, it was horrifying. And they called the cops and everything. And of course the DC cops, total shitheads. They just showed up and they were scouring the alley for like crack vials and stuff. So they could just not have to investigate and write it off. Yeah. And that's what happened to women, especially black women in DC. And there had been a serial killer, I think, roughly around that time. Maybe I might be wrong with the timing, but I think so and a lot of black women were being murdered and the cops weren't taking it seriously. You know, it was hardly getting publicized. Yeah, So anyways, I think that was part of it, you know? So anyways, yeah, that's how the Bratmobile ended. Just got towed away and scrapped. Yeah. Oh yeah, it was terrible. I remember that day because I was walking around and we actually stopped by their house. And they were like, Oh my God, this all just happened this morning. We're like, Oh my god. So terrible. So there's horrible story. Yeah. Anyways, but yeah. So then after that spring, you know, we'd really kind of connected with all these people in DC and, and decided we all want to get back together again. So we had committed to spending the summer in DC. And Bikini Kill ended up deciding to tour with Nation of Ulysses across the country, and they ended up in DC. So we're all in DC for the summer of ‘91. And then, and then we all had to go back in time for the International Pop Underground Convention, which was being held in August, I believe, beginning of August of 1991. And that was, of course, really fun. And Bratmobile played twice? I think we're the only band that played twice. So yeah, we we played on girl night, which is so awesome. That was the opening night of the IPUC. And Julie Lary was emceeing and that was cool, because I think the challenge was kind of- I mean, actually, I think it was supposed to be all women. I think in the end, there were some guys on stage and some bands like Wonder Twins or something, you know, and maybe Suture and maybe Spinanes, I don't know. But something like that. But you know, even my sister Cindy, she had a band called Lync with John from Seaweed, and they did like some songs. It was cool. I think I might have sang with her. I don't know. Anyways, and then our other show at IPU was at like nine in the morning or something? Yeah, thank you Calvin for giving us that time slot opening for Kicking Giant and Jad Fair. Of course, for some reason we had to play first. And I remember just telling Tae, I was like I'm not going on at nine and he's like, Well, then let's go get some coffee. So me and him went to like the Smithfield or something to get some coffee and tried to delay but by the time I came back, my band was already on stage playing. So I had to run and jump and get on stage. So I was like, oh no!! wait for me!! Anyways, but I don't think I slept that whole week. It was so fun. Yeah. Anyways, and then I think a bunch of us ended up- we met a contingent of really cool people from San Francisco, like Tribe 8 group of people and a bunch of their friends. And then so I think Bikini Kill, Ulysses… and Fugazi, I think, were touring down the coast. You know, at the end of that summer 91. And so I think we, I followed them down. I know they needed another car to get down there. So I said, Well, I'll drive down and some of you can go in my car. And I know they needed a way back because Ulysses van was going to keep going across the country and Bikini Kill needed to be able to come back up to Olympia. So I drove down there. And we had a great time hanging out at Gilman street, hanging out with the Tribe 8 crew, and yeah, it was great. And then I drove back. The drive back was a little harrowing, but... it's funny when I look back at all the networking that we did, so much of it was happening at IPU. I mean, when you think about it, it's like pre internet, pre smartphone, pre social media, all this stuff. And we were just probably networking and connecting more with people than we ever did later, you know, or even do now probably- it's pretty amazing. So then it just started being like going back and forth between DC and Olympia and stuff. And then I was like, Okay, well, it's time for Bratmobile to go on tour. So I booked this tour. And we ended up taking- it was Bratmobile and Heavens to Betsy, summer of 92. We kind of just went across the country and then just ended up in DC. we didn't come back or whatever, add it was pretty fun and funny. Two cars. Hanna stern shine who is a photographer. She was driving Heavens to Betsy and my car was driving us although we'd switch up and stuff. I remember Heavens to Betsy lived very communally at the time they were... both going to Evergreen. They had all these friends, and they wanted to bring all their friends and the whole crew on the tour. And I was like, “What in the hell, we don't have room for all these people.” But then I decided to have a little dinner at my house to try to talk about it. I was gonna try to talk them out of this. Well, of course, I didn't have vegan butter or something like this when they were cooking at my place. So I ran across the street to Safeway to get some vegan butter or something. And I came back and they had broken the Runaways record that I was borrowing from someone that was on my turntable. And at the time, I thought that record was super rare, and I was pissed. So I just started yelling and like someone cried and whatever. And they're like, oh, Allison’s so mean. But you know what, it did the trick. Half the people dropped off the tour because they thought I was a bitch, so that's good. Anyway. [laughing]

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Kelsey Smith  1:35:51  

And that was in Olympia that you were meeting with them?

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Allison Wolfe  1:35:55  

Oh, yeah. I had an apartment downtown at the Ray. So I lived in the Ray downtown above Pizza Time. And that was my apartment, smelled like pizza dough all the time. And it was always really hot because the ovens you know. But yeah, so it was at the Pizza Time apartment. Yeah. And I swear to God, I think it was like Isaac Brock wanted to go on the tour and like, you know, James Bertram, and you know, Dan, what's it Counter Commons but his name was Dan Hanson at the time he was Corin’s boyfriend so okay, he did end up going on the tour. And whoever you know, Danny Sharkey, all these people. It was whatever. So we pared it down a little, went across the country. Pretty crazy. We ended up- I remember when we got to Louisville, Kentucky, we ended up canceling a bunch of shows after that because we had so much fun at the group house, the Rocket House there, with like all the people there- like David Pajo and Jason Noble. And who is it? Jeff? What's his fucking last name? I can't remember. Anyways, whatever. And Tara Jane O'Neil, all these people. It was so fun… And then we ended up in DC that summer. And then I think it was then that we ended up Christina Billotte was actually technically still in our band. And we played Fourth of July at Erin's back parents backyard in Bethesda. And then Christina Rae was mad because I think I turned her amp down and she quit the band, or kind of quit. She just stormed out and left town for a week. And then we had a show coming up at Fort Reno. And we're like, where's Christina? So then we just kind of made it be like- I think we tried Billy Karren out to see if he would play with us, too. We thought we needed four people. But then we were just like, Nah, let's just have it be Erin on guitar, Molly on drums, because it used to be like, this switching like Molly would switch between drums and guitar and Christina Billotte would switch between drums and second guitar. And Erin was always on guitar, and I was only singing anyway. So that's when we became a three piece solidly. And that was summer of 92. Anyways, okay. I don't know, I need to talk about other things. Okay, Olympia.

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Kelsey Smith  1:38:12  

It's okay, yeah, we're getting close. But we can always, you know, if we run out of time, we can pick up another time. We can like put it all together or whatever. So just keep going chronologically.

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Allison Wolfe  1:38:27  

All right. Well, I do want to say something about Olympia, Olympia versus DC. So I started spending a lot of time in DC. And then eventually when I graduated from Evergreen, because oh, by the way, we did two years at U of O and then we transferred to Evergreen. So I had to do my remaining two years there because I don't actually prefer to have all I didn't really want to transfer to Evergreen, although it was the only school that was gonna let us graduate on the course we were on because we didn't want to take requirements. We wanted to take political classes only and stuff like that. But also, we knew we needed to be in Olympia for the scene. Eugene wasn't cutting it, it was too isolated. So Olympia was very important. It was important to be there for the scene and what we were involved in for the community. So spending a lot of time in DC, I loved it. It was kind of a wild and crazy… when I graduated from Evergreen in like 94 or something- I think it was the fall of 94 I moved to DC. And it was a real culture shock for me actually, because it's a very male aggressive town. And I think that's when I realized what kind of bubble I was raised in. Yeah, and all women household, you know, lesbian feminist, and then the broader community was very, like, you know, super lefty, liberal, whatever in Olympia. And the scene that we had helped create, but were part of, was really women focused, women centered. We just didn't even pay attention to the guys half the time, you know. So it's like, all of a sudden you're in DC and it's all about the guys. It's about Fugazi, it's about Nation of Ulysses. It's about the Congress and you know, every day, it's just like, it was just super- I don't know, I was just constantly getting harassed and stuff like that. Lots of male aggression. Lots of drunk jocks coming out of the bars being assholes… it kind of drove me crazy. So I do think Olympia is special in a lot of ways, because it was sort of, I guess, in a way, kind of a bubble. But, you know, I was glad to be raised in that bubble. Um, let's see what else… sometimes I don't know if it's important to talk about the media. But like, one thing about riot grrrl is, we kind of had this goal of taking over the means of production to represent ourselves and we didn't really see the need for the media. Once the Ipu happened, the media started descending not just on Seattle, or grunge, or whatever, but on Olympia, and on riot grrrl and love rock and all that. So we were taken off guard by that we weren't prepared for it, that's for sure. And we felt like, you know, at the time, people, the journalists and editors just didn't get it. They were older than us. They didn't know what the hell... they didn't understand what we were doing. And they kind of tried to turn us into like cat fights and fashion plates and a fad and a trend and whatever, just defang and declaw the message. So we weren't into that. Most of us- some people were, some people weren't. So it was a little bit of a that, you know, then there were kind of tensions within bands because some people wanted immediate blackout. Some people didn't... but the media was good for one thing: making people who have authority in your life accept that what you're doing is valid. So it definitely made my parents get off my back a little. And my teachers, I had a professor at Evergreen who I think didn't understand, y’know, my spring project was riot grrrl or something. And she didn't get it at all. And then she went to New York for spring break with her girlfriend. An article had come out in the New York Times on us. All of a sudden, she came back getting it and I was getting full credit again. So, yay!! Yay, media!! It also helps you get people to your shows and sell your records, which somehow we didn't think was important at the time probably because none of us really saw much money then. So we didn't really see how it was going to benefit us.

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 Allison Wolfe

Oral History Interview #2

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Interviewed by Kelsey Smith

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March 19, 2023

Via zoom from Olympia, WA and Los Angeles, CA

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Olympia Indie Music History Project

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Kelsey Smith 0:02  

Okay, so this is Kelsey Smith, doing part two of the interview with Allison Wolfe Sunday, March 19. We are on Zoom. Kelsey is in Olympia, Alison is in LA. Take it away, Allison Wolfe.

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Allison Wolfe  0:21  

...Okay, so I was talking about the ‘92. Summer Tour. I don't know what was going on then. Summer 92- Oh, I know. You know, I did start going out with- I met Joaquin de la Puente who lived in LA. So I met him on that tour, the Bratmobile/Heavens to Betsy tour of summer ‘92 in Chicago, because our shows fell through and he had set up shows for us since they fell through. And anyways, we kind of instantly–so then we went out for several years after that. So he came to–I remember he came to DC to visit also, later that summer, when we were there. And then he would come to visit me in Olympia sometimes. But it's funny because I know he's a long time Olympia person now. But back when we were going out, he hated Olympia, he would come visit me and he’d just start bitching, man, he got there. And he bits about how fake it was or how  whatever it was. It was pretty–I just thought it was really funny. When he actually moved there, I really made fun of him. He didn't get it at all. And I was like, Yeah, you don't remember how you used to act or how you used to treat me anyways. But he was an angry man back then in the ‘90s. But I remember one thing, though, before–so funny–But when my mom was sick, and you know, I was back in Olympia, that was like ‘98, ‘99 and talking to her about a lot of stuff. And I remember one day, she just goes, “Whatever happened to that walking chant, chunk overweight. She was like, “Whatever happened to that walking chunk of testosterone you used to go out with? What's his name?” [laughing] I know! I was like, “Joaquin? I don't know. What was he doing then? How do you already? I don't think he you know, he hasn't moved to Olympia yet. But anyways.

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Kelsey Smith 2:46  

Are you friends now?

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Allison Wolfe  2:49  

Yeah, I mean, we were closer friends. We were pretty close after we broke up for years. But then once he started going out with Tobi, we weren't close anymore. I don't know why. But that's alright. I mean, obviously it's not just on him or me or Tobi, but I think it's a mixture of the three. But it's too bad. But every now and then, you know, when we were there to play for Tobi's 50^th me and him got to hang out a little and catch up. So that was nice. But yeah, I don't hear from him much anymore. And I mean, I sometimes–I'll message him when I get to Olympia, but I don't usually hear back. So I see Tobi a lot more often. I'm trying to think what else was going on then? I mean, I think we learned a lot from touring across the country. We learned a lot about ourselves and each other, and I think it's funny at that age, you kind of realize even people who are just slightly younger or slightly older, it seems like generations almost, like they seem so much more naive or wiser or whatever. So it's just kind of funny, but sometimes I just look at it. And I was like, Oh my God, how young we were and just like, cruising across the country by ourselves. You know, with almost no money just like what? You think about now with the internet and everything. But like, back then we didn't have like, you know, Google Maps or anything… like, if you wanted to know how to get to the next town, you had a list of phone numbers. You had to call the promoter like, usually the day of, before we’d leave. It was usually me, but I tried to get someone else to do it sometimes too. You’d have to call the promoter and get the directions to either the venue or their house, wherever you're going first, and then you'd have to write everything down. And the person sitting shotgun would have to be in charge of those directions. And it was just nuts, and calling was so expensive then, you know. So you'd be lucky if you stayed at someone's house who let you make a long distance call. Or if you had a payphone- I remember we did get a tone dialer, though. So that was this thing that people would get at RadioShack, and then they'd somehow rewire it to make the tones of a payphone calling long distance, and you'd have to hit the button, but it had to be at really even intervals, and you kind of had to count and know when, and then you could put that into the mouthpiece of the payphone. And it would trick it into thinking you were putting quarters in or whatever. So… I think Tim Green made us one. And so we did, we were touring with that, which was kind of fun. There were also a lot of stolen calling cards for booking tours, and getting in or confirming shows or advance, quote unquote, advancing shows on tour. But yeah, the the funny thing about the stolen calling cards is they were usually stolen from whoever's parents, you know- like, punks were stealing the numbers or whatever, from their own parents, and then spreading them around, which meant you knew that calling card would only last three weeks to a month, because once the bill came in, then the parents would be like, What the fuck? And I think they would be able to claim it was stolen. So it's like no harm, no foul, right? So kids, just kind of “Whatever. They'll be able to get it credited, so let's just all use this for three weeks.” It was pretty funny. So yeah, there was that. It was fun. It was wild. Lots of that.

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Kelsey Smith 6:59  

Was that your first cross country tour? And that was 92, right?

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Allison Wolfe  7:05  

Yeah. And I remember, I really loved Babes in Toyland. And they were about to come out with their new album, which was, I guess, you know, Fontanelle, which was on a major label, but it hadn't quite come out yet. But I remember, we were in Minneapolis, and we stayed at- or I stayed at least- at this guy, Howard's house and he's a good friend of theirs, a roadie, and stuff like that. So I stayed at his place and he gave me like, at least one rare seven inch of theirs which I was very I still have, very exciting- Handsome and Gretel. And then where, there, she's in the car wreck the picture, oh my god. And also, he made me a tape of the new album, so that I was like playing it in the car all the time. And actually, I feel like that tape helped me. It kind of- so like, aggro, it kind of gave me the confidence to drive better. Because I've always been an overly defensive driver. I'm not a great driver. But I think really what I needed was kind of confidence at the time and that tape made it so I could just be like, [makes racecar sound] you know, and drive. And then I remember at the end of the tour, I think that when I got to DC I wrote some long letter to Cat about how much Babes in Toyland meant to me and also, Stephanie Sargent from Seven Year Bitch had died not too long before that, and how, you know, talked about all of that kind of stuff, you know, so we just sort of like how important it is for us to stay alive and whatever, you know, I'm sure some sappy cheesy emo shit but whatever. But yeah,

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Kelsey Smith 8:54  

Who did you send that to? Again? 

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Allison Wolfe  8:57  

To cat beyond? I don’t know if I say her name right. But yeah, from Babes in Toyland. Yeah. And then she wrote me back some long 10 page letter, but I never got it. So that was another thing is back then, we really relied on snail mail for so much. But the postal system was actually much worse then. I mean, I know people get packages stolen all the time. But really it was kind of a 50% chance of things getting to where they're going. Especially packages. And especially between major cities. You just kind of knew it was a crapshoot. But yeah, so I was bummed I never got that letter. And she was bummed, too, because I think I ended up talking to Howard and he was like, no, she never- Howard Hamilton. I think that's his name. He said she never got the letter or she's bummed. Or I never got it. You know, whatever. I don't know. It's annoying, but anywho...

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Kelsey Smith 9:55  

I know you really loved them.

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Allison Wolfe  9:57  

I know and it

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Kelsey Smith 10:02  

Okay, so 93? 94? what was happening then?

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Allison Wolfe  10:08  

I felt like by the time we hit ‘92, I felt like there started to become more and more kind of schisms in the scene and that was hard. Because… we're all young and mouthy and whatever and had our own ideas about things. Also, I think that marginalized people tend to- you know, once they do get the mic or the stage, they're like, Oh, now it's my turn. And so there is that kind of idea of scarcity, and girls fighting over airtime or recognition or whatever. And sometimes we don't know if we're gonna get another chance, right? to have to have a platform or whatever it is. So I think sometimes we’d just be really pushy with our ideas. And I think that's kind of what happened with organizing things- well, Riot Grrrl, but also later, Lady Fest, it's like, we feel like this is our one shot. So it needs to be my way, you know, or something like that. So I feel like that kind of stuff started happening within the bands. And the media was really singling out, of course, the singers of the bands and focusing on us as the mouthpiece. Well, in a way we were, but at the same time, it's like, the other members of our bands are  intelligent women who had things to say as well, but they weren't really getting quoted or even asked to do interviews or whatever. So then sometimes that would start kind of in effect, it would start pitting bandmates against each other. Especially the singers would bear the brunt of- not only would we get the recognition, but we'd also get most of the criticism, you know, it's like, “Well, you're fucked up because some guy harassed me at your show,” or whatever. And this especially probably happened to Bikini Kill more than us even, but I felt like often the bands were responsible not just for the entertainment, but we were somehow responsible for security at the show, too. And ticketing and everything like, “Oh, it's your fault if it's too expensive. It's your fault if weird shit’s going on while you're on stage,” you know, and everything. Obviously, if we see it or sense it, we'll call it out. But like, I’m hard of hearing and my eyesight is bad. I didn't notice half the shit that was going on at our shows. Luckily, because probably it was a lot of people yelling out horrible things. Who knows? Well, I've heard that that happened. Like, actually, our second show was with the Melvins at North Shore Surf Club. And Calvin [Johnson] just wanted it to be two bands Bratmobile and the Melvins and I remember thinking- It's so dumb, but I remember thinking that Calvin was trying to make fun of us by putting us together like, oh, all of the Melvins fans are gonna hate us. He thinks this is funny. So I insisted on a third band. I regret this to this day. But I insisted on adding Rockin’ Rod and the Stricknines. Well, somehow, when they were added, I don't know how it happened but they pushed their way to the middle slot. They were lucky that they even got on the bill because they weren't supposed to be on the bill. So and then somehow, we were opening opening and they are in the middle. And then I remember right after we played, I remember someone in the band- I can't remember who, if it was Kurt Flansburgh or Rockin’ Rod, but one of them basically being like, “yeah, get your shit off the stage now.” Like being really pushy and bossy with us. Maybe not that strong, but basically saying move it. It's our turn. And I was just dumbfounded because I'm like, “You don't know that we single handedly got you on the show and that you shouldn't even be on it and you shouldn't definitely shouldn't be playing after us.” And they were so rude to us. And I just was like, Fuck you, man. I was so mad. But anyways, but I know that while we were on stage, I guess. Like weird heshers and stuff. We're flipping our shit or something. I didn't hear it or see it. But when we got off stage two, Kathleen came up to us and was like, Hey, are you guys all right? And I was like, What do you mean? Yeah, we just opened without Melvins were great, you know? And she was like, oh, because all these guys out in the crowd were threatening to kill you the whole time. I was like, what? And luckily, I didn't see or hear a thing. So I think ignorance can be bliss. [laughing] Well, You should have seen the crowd, who was pretty much all metal heads who for sure didn't like Bratmobile. I mean, besides the kind of local community of ours, there was all these people who came out of the woodwork from all around the area, and they were like metal heads, or whatever. Also Buzz came up to me after we played and he was like, really sweet. He was like, thanking me, I was like, thank you so much for playing with us. And he was like, we really love bands like yours. And he was like, it sucks because every time we play and you know, go play anywhere, they always Oh, sorry- He was like, “Anytime we go play anywhere they always put us with like these like hesher bands,” and stuff like that. And he's like, “They don't realize that even though we might play heavy music, those aren't usually the bands we like or are interested in.” And he was like, “I like you guys. And I like The Cure.” And it was funny because he had just shaved the sides of his head and had a Robert Smith thing going on- that's the Cure guy, right?- And I looked at him and I was like, “Oh, yeah, I can tell you like The Cure!” [laughing] it was so funny. But anyways. And then of course, when the Melvins played, it was great. It was like a religious experience. And as it always is in Olympia. And I remember Dale was playing in these like, seriously old ass underwear. I have photos of Dale, in his like grimy old underwear. Playing.

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Kelsey Smith 16:42  

We need those pictures. Very low on pictures.

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Allison Wolfe  16:46  

Oh, really? Oh, god. Yeah, I definitely have photos. Although I don't know I'm kind of hanging on to it. But we'll see if I can find them. The thing is, I say I have these and then I can't find them. But the cool thing was like, years later, when I went to a Melvins show in DC, and I was backstage talking to them, and I was like “Oh my god, we played our second show with you.” And Buzz was like, “We played a lot of shows together.” That's not true. We only played one show, but it really was flattering to me. I was like, oh my god, I can't believe he thinks we played all these shows together. Very, exciting.

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Kelsey Smith 17:26  

So far, we haven't gotten to talk to anybody from the Melvins yet, but hopefully, hopefully that's coming too.

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Allison Wolfe  17:33  

Oh, yeah, that'll be great. You should look for Laurie Black Who was their bassist for a lot of time. Oh, yeah. You got to look for her and interview her. She's like, surely Hell's daughter. And she was in the band for a while. Probably the coolest version of the moments. But yeah, I don't know where she knows what she's doing.  And of course, you know, you had Joe Preston, I remember when- Oh, that I think actually, I think that show might have been the first show that Joe Preston started playing with them. And that was, of course was a big deal to everyone because I've always been a hugest Melvins fan. And then now he's in the Melvins. And we were all very excited about two. And Molly Neuman. And I knew Joe Preston from Eugene because he used to live in Eugene, so we got to know him when we were first living there. And, you know, one of the few punks in town.

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Kelsey Smith 18:37  

He is the particular person that I would like to interview for starters, just because he was in Olympia for so long. He played last night- Thrones played last night. It was really good.

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Allison Wolfe  18:49  

Oh, like with with Unwound. Yeah, he

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Kelsey Smith 18:52  

yeah, he opened for Unwound. It was really good. 

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Allison Wolfe  18:55  

Oh, that's awesome guy. Yeah, you got to interview him. It's great. 

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Kelsey Smith 19:03  

Ok, so what are we into like ninety-?

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Allison Wolfe  19:06  

We haven't quite gotten through ‘93 yet. I think what happened after that summer of 92, after going back home- I don't know, then all of a sudden it's 93. Bratmobile was always like a kind of part time band because we were all in college most of the time. So we could kind of only do things on spring break or summer break, usually summer break, because our spring breaks wouldn't always necessarily be at the same time. I mean, Molly and I always went to the same schools like U of O [University of Oregon], and then Evergreen, but Erin was at University of Maryland. And they didn't have the same spring break, I don't think. So that was always like a thing too is like and winter but winter is a miserable time to do stuff. It's definitely a miserable time anywhere, but it was no less miserable in DC- or I think we've played some shows in New York too, that were like, oh my god- in the winter. I remember I think we had a renter wreck or something. And it broke down in New York and it was so cold, you could hardly be outside to try to fix it. But yeah, so we're back in school... Molly, I think, [inaudible glitch] to either finish school before me, so she was probably near the end by then, of school. Yeah, I think she was. And then by that summer, she had moved to the Bay Area. Because she met Chris Applegren, who became her husband. She met him on our first tour, when we were in Sacramento. So we had played the East Bay, we played Gilman Street. And I think I had made out with Jesse luscious from Blatz. And so he came to our next show, which was in Sacramento with Tiger Trap. But I think he didn't want to come alone and look like he was just coming for some girl. So he brought like two of his friends. And one of them was Chris Applegren [Lookout! Records] And then so him and Molly hit it off really well that night, and they were just at the Yum Yum Donut shop the whole night. So I feel like I had a part in that introduction. So by the next year, by the next summer, she had moved in with him, or they got a place together or something and lived in Berkeley, or Oakland, I don't know. I guess it was technically the Berkeley-Oakland line. So then, when we had to, we decided to do another tour, summer of 1993. But it was just going to be a West Coast tour down the coast. And well then, and then we were going to come back- Well, we did all this. So we went on a west coast tour, in like June. And then we came back early July, and we recorded our EP The Real Janelle. And then we flew straight to England for like a month. And so that was wild. So that was kind of what the summer of 93 looked like…

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Kelsey Smith 22:26  

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So at that point you were in three different locations? Erin was in DC. You were in Olympia. Yes.

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Allison Wolfe  22:33  

Yeah. And Molly was in the East Bay.

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Kelsey Smith 22:36  

Okay, wow. How did you practice?!

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Allison Wolfe  22:37  

Well, that's the thing. Every time Bratmobile did something we would basically have like, maybe one to three practices, and then we go on tour, or three practices and then record a record. And, you know, it probably sounds like that as well…But we had to operate like that. We didn't really have any other choices. So yeah, it was pretty funny. But yeah, I remember someone who was it was Ryan Bellows, I think who loaned us their bedroom or something to practice in, and I was throwing knives and I guess I had a knife stuck in the wall. And he came home and was really offended and thought I was threatening him. I'm just like, No, I'm just an idiot throwing knives around the room. Whatever. But anyways… so we went down. I remember that tour was really fun once we got to the bay. So we practiced in Olympia, and then we must have practiced more in the Bay Area and then maybe, and then we hit the road. But we brought Janelle with us as our roadie on that tour. Now this is before the record came out. 

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KS Can you say Janelle‘s full name?

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AW  Janelle HessigI think it was her last name. Yeah. Janelle has from she did tales of Blargh fanzine and she's done many others, you know- comic artist or whatever. She draws really good. So we brought her as a roadie. I'm not sure why, but we just did, and then as we're going down the coast I remember at some point she's wants us to put in a tape. It's like, oh, like, I think it was like Screeching Weasel and Born Against. So they were doing a seven inch I don't know if it had been put out yet, but it had been recorded where they did a cover of each other songs as a split seven inch, but I'm pretty sure it was Born Against doing a song that Ben Weasel wrote that was about Janelle. I don't know if it was just called “Janelle” or what, but she's bragging about it or something. And I remember back then I love Sam McPheeters now, but I don't know, I think he wrote something in a fanzine that pissed me off. So I was like, fuck him. And so when she's talking all about Born Against, so I'm like, fuck that. And she, how they wrote a song about her. And I was like, we can write a better song. So that's when, you know, on the rest of that trip, I wrote “The Real Janelle…” I just wrote it about that tour. So like Brett Frost was somehow around us at that time, maybe on tour with us as well, who's from San Diego, he's no longer alive, sadly. But so I wrote a line about him, and Carlos Canedo was also on tour with us as a writer. I don't know how we had this many roadies, but somehow he was with us as well. And so I wrote a line about him. So you know, it's kind of just about the tour. But anyways, I do think our song became more popular. So it was like a competition. I do remember when we were- because we were in the Bay Area area for several days, because we were playing multiple shows around there- And I remember going over to my friend Sharon Tesla's house, she was from DC. She's like, she was a Riot Grrrl. But she also was from the earliest days of DC Punk as well. She was in a band, Chalk Circle. And she was also in Suture later. So anyway, so she lived in San Francisco, I went to her place to visit or pick something up, or I don't know. And I remember Mia Zapata was there, and that The Gits were on tour at the same time going down the coast at the same time. So we kept seeing flyers for their shows. Now I was a fan of The Gits. I knew the drummer Steve Moriarty, but I might have met Mia, but I didn't know her. So I kind of met her for the first time at Sharon's house. She was very quiet. I kind of just assumed that she didn't like me, I don't know. But I think because at the time, it was when the press was really pitting Olympia versus Seattle, and calling all the Seattle girl bands Riot Grrrl or women in music Riot Grrrls, and I think they were annoyed by that, whatever. So I just assumed all the punks from Seattle hated Riot Grrrls, which is probably inaccurate, but whatever. Or maybe, who knows. So I was sort of like, I wanted to meet her, but I was afraid she probably hated me. I remember she had just dyed her hair blue too, this really beautiful deep dark blue… I'd always wanted to dye my hair blue like that. So I was like, “ooooh.” Then we went down to LA. Well, when we get to LA, we're playing Jabberjaw. I had never been to Jabberjaw. But you know, a historical venue in LA. So fun. And I remember we get there- for me, going down the coast, especially in the summer or whenever it was. So I just got happier and happier as the weather got nicer and nicer. As you know, growing up in Olympia, it was gray all the time, it rained all the time. We had a leaky roof for a long time. And I remember all the drips through the ceiling came into my room. So I always had to assemble all these glasses and bowls and things to catch their dirty gross water. And I think we didn't have the money to fix the roof. Especially in early high school. But like I think also you have to wait till it dries out. So you can't really replace a roof in Washington State probably until summer. Well, nowadays the weather’s probably changed…

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Kelsey Smith 28:58  

Yeah, the weather is pretty much still like that.

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Allison Wolfe  29:03  

Yeah, I mean, yeah, right. Except for you kind of have longer Summers now and hotter summers. But… I rarely spent summers in Olympia because growing up with my dad, after the divorce, he moved back to Tennessee. And not Memphis- Dyersburg, Tennessee. Bumfuck Northwest Tennessee. And so we spent every summer in Tennessee, and every other Christmas, every other spring break, like that. So I didn't really know a whole lot about Olympia summers. So, you know, it was kind of once I was 18 and got to be like, Oh my god, this is awesome. You know, summer is the best time. but I didn't know... 

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Kelsey Smith 29:48  

Absolutely the best time...Absolutely.

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Allison Wolfe  29:52  

I love it. And also with how long it would stay light so much later than anywhere else I lived, you know. So I would get happier as we went down the coast, just warmer, warmer, warmer, warmer. So we get to LA and I'm like, Ah, so warm. We're driving down Pico, you know, the sun’s setting. It's incredible. There's street vendors everywhere. It just looks so, you know… just people, people on the streets, you know, big city. I also always craved that growing up in a small town. And I remember Gary came out from our John just like, quick and pulled up the like, metal pulled out gate thing and was like, load all your equipment in quick and then and shut it. Okay, Park. Okay, run around the back, because you had to enter in the back. I was like, Okay. And it was so fun. And then I remember Gary saying, like, hey, The Gits were supposed to headline but actually now Bratmobile has too. And I was like, I don't know, The Gits have been a band longer than us. And I really look up to them. And I think they'd be bummed, you know, I don't want to change the order. And he was like, I cannot tell you how many hundreds of Riot Grrrls have been calling here all day about your show. And I was like, what? And he was like, you have to play last. It's not really a choice. And I was like, okay, so you know, it happened. But anyways, me and Janelle were upfront during the whole set dancing and yelling and stuff. And there's actually a lot of footage from that show of The Gits in The Gits documentary, The Gits movie. And actually, I think there were a couple times I could hear me and Janelle yelling or something in the crowd, it was pretty cool. That was summer of 1993. So that probably, I believe it was one week before she was murdered. I think it might have been the last show she played or one of the last shows because they were on tour. So it might make sense that they played more shows going back up the coast. We didn't. We played San Diego and then drove home, but they might have played more, but I'm pretty sure she died like a week later.

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Kelsey Smith 32:06  

That's what I was wondering. Yeah,

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Allison Wolfe  32:08  

So It was probably late June or very early July. So yeah, it's just terrible. So yeah, so we go back out, we're in the Bay Area for a few days. And then we go back up to Olympia After tour. I'd lost my voice, I was just worn out. And I'm sitting there. And I remember my mom calling me… the phone just kept ringing one morning, and I'm like, “who's calling” and then I just finally pick it up. And it's my mom. And she's like, “Allison, I gotta tell you something. I just read this in the paper. Tthere's this woman who was murdered, and she's in a band that I think you knew,” or played with something. And I was like, what, and she told me that Mia Zapata had been murdered. And I was like, Oh, my God, no, no, I just didn't believe it. I'm like, no, no, no, we just saw them. We just played with them, like, a week ago or less. And then she's like, Yeah, no, it's so bad. You know, and then you know, and of course, that really was so shocking in a way, and terrible. And I mean, it really freaked so many of us girls out in bands and music. Also, because, you know, a lot of us had worked in or experienced domestic violence situations, you know, I used to volunteer at Safeplace. I know that Kathleen also did of course, and all of us were just like, Oh my God. But one thing we knew, statistically, is that most women are abused or murdered by people they know. So then we're just like, Alright, who is this then? You know, is it someone among all of us? You know, I mean, obviously, it was more of a Seattle [thing]- it happened in Seattle and stuff like that. But you know, we felt a real kind of affinity with the women in music up there as well. I really feel for them, because it really tore that scene apart. It really tore the Seattle scene apart. Because I'm sure they were all also suspecting each other or whatever, or men in their scene and stuff like that.

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Kelsey Smith 34:17  

But good things came from it in Seattle. I was living in Seattle at that point, and I feel like you know, like home alive happened and then they started doing all of the like, women's self defense classes. I feel like they took they took that and and did some positive things with it. But yeah, it was terrible being there at that time.

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Allison Wolfe  34:38  

Terrifying. Yeah, it was so awful. Yeah, and you know, you you learn a lot more and the film and the movie but yeah, it was a really awful time. And you know, and we didn't even have time hardly to- what can you- we were just like, ughh… you can hardly have time to really, really process it, at least for us, because then we had to go in the studio right away. Well, actually, I'm not sure if we had- I don't think we'd recorded our record yet. But I don't know. But then we quickly had to go up to Seattle anyways and record the real Janelle EP. My voice was gone. And you can hear it on the record, it sounds so rough. And then right after that, we had to fly to England. So it was just like wild. Then all of a sudden we're in England, but you know, it's funny with going to England. I remember Bikini Kill had just been in England and done a tour with Huggy Bear six months earlier. So Kathleen came over, she lived down the hall from me in the ray on Jefferson. Yeah. So I remember she came over and she was like, Okay, I'll set I'm going to prep you for England. And she was like, “Allison, it's not like you think it's going to be, it's not going to be as cozy or comfortable as US tours.” I mean, Lord knows those weren't comfortable. But anyways, and she was like, “A lot of places don't have hot water. You can't take a shower, or a bath every day. You're gonna be sleeping on a lot of hard cold floors. Just prepare yourself.” And I was like, “what?? no!!” And it scared me. So then in my mind, I was like, Okay, I'm going to sleep my way across England, because I want a warm bed. So that was my plan.

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Kelsey Smith 36:42  

Can you backtrack to when you recorded in Seattle and tell us who recorded, too?

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Allison Wolfe  36:51  

Okay. I think it was Stuart Holloman, I think at–what's the studio? I can't remember. 

Kelsey Smith

 Avast! 

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Allison Wolfe

Avast! Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's where we recorded the real Janelle And I know our first little mini EP, Kiss and Ride, that was on homestead. I think we recorded that mostly with Conrad uno at egg studio. And then we finished it with Pat Maley at his studio. I think we hadn't finished it or something. Maybe we did the vocals with Pat at the Capitol theater. And Pat Maley put bongos on Kiss and Ride, which I love. I think it's amazing. And Michelle Noelle played bass, I think, on that. I'm pretty sure you're on that. She played with an early version of Bratmobile. Anyways, yeah, so recording, I don't know, I think I never liked recording. I never enjoyed it. And I also never got my- I didn't understand it. I didn't understand how it worked. I never got my way. I was always told not to- you know, I never had double the vocal tracks or anything. Because I was always told, Oh, that's hard, or it doesn't work, or no, we're not that kind of band. And I'm still kind of bummed to this day that I wasn't just allowed or even told about those things. Oh, you could do this. Or you could do that. Or, yeah, you're allowed to do that. It's, you know, you have a choice as well. I just felt like I kind of felt like I was bossed around, basically. But I also didn't know what I was doing. But I look back because I feel like a lot of these recordings don't really hold up that well. I mean, I guess they must because they sold, but I just felt like with even just overdubs could have made it a little nicer, you know, or reverb! I wasn't even allowed to have effects on my vocals, which pisses me off. So I think then I remember that next time we recorded for Kill Rock Stars, it was Cold Cold Hearts. I mean, that was like 96 or something. And we recorded with Mark Robinson in Arlington, Virginia and I remember just being like, drown it, drown it drown it with effects, because I was never allowed to have that before. And I think what we turned into Slim [Moon] was so muddy that he was like, send it back. He's like, “uh-uh, you got clean these vocals up a little. You can't even hear what you're saying.” And he was like your fans want to hear what you're saying. I was like, aaaaahh! I want effects! But anyways, pretty funny. So yeah, so I'm sure I wasn't happy in the studio. I'm sure I didn't like it. I remember there was a song that, maybe it was the end of the day, we were tired. I'm sure we were tired. And Erin wasn't quite getting some part right. Like, I don't know, she probably just wouldn't miss a note. And she kept doing it over and over and over again. You know, sometimes when you do that you just get worse and worse and worse. So that was kind of happening. And then finally she got it and it turns out that Stewart had forgotten to hit record. And then when he said, “Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't hit record on that one.” She just lost it. She just collapsed on the couch and was like crying or so it was like, and we were like, “Oh, how could you not have recorded that time?” Anyways, I remember that.

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Kelsey Smith 40:18  

Ok, I've given you a time check that it's 1:30. And I have about two hours of recording from the last time-not to like-I want you to just keep going. But I, I feel like you know, having it four hours long.

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Allison Wolfe  40:37  

Yeah. Well, you know what, there's a lot of crap that you can edit. 

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Kelsey Smith 40:42  

You'll get to weigh in on the editing part. But I just wanted to mention that. So keep going.

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Allison Wolfe  40:51  

I'm trying to think what else is important here? Okay, well, I just thought that was funny. So yeah, so then we go to England, and I remember the first night, the first day, we're there, of course, we forgot to get money out of the ATM or whatever. So here we are at- I think it's called the Boston arms and the dome. I think that they're like venues right next to is a bar basically in. Is it Tufnell Park? I can't remember. Oh, archway, I don't know, something like one of those two subway stops. So anyways, right around there. And we were playing there with Blood Sausage that night. And who was you know, some of the members of Huggy Bear and Dale Shaw. So I remember we kind of sat there and we're like trying to- they weren't real chatty, but whatever, you know, but we're hungry. And finally, I was like, there's no food. I'm hungry. I don't have any pounds. But I had been at a party in Olympia right before leaving. And a someone had a pound note stuck on their fridge, and I stole it. And I stole it because I was like, Oh, I'm going to need this when I go to England. So of course, that was the only British money I had. So then I hear I was like, I'm hungry. I got to eat. And so someone's like, well, there's a chip shop right down the street. So I want walked down, there was a block whip. It was called Maryland fried chicken. And I'm like, Whoa. And I go in there. And I slap my pound note on the counter. And I'm like, hi, I want some french fries. And these guys just look at me and shake their head. And they're like, first of all, they're called chips here. And they're like, and second of all, we haven't used pound notes in the UK for X number of years. And I was like what? So I didn't realize it was some artifact, you know? And I was like, noooo! I'm hungry. So I had to go back and borrow some pound coins from some people. But that was yeah, that was pretty funny. And then I remember there's a big Blur poster outside of the venue and we posed in front of it–took a Polaroid–which I eventually gave to Graham Coxon. He better still have it. I wish I still had it. But he begged me to give it to him. And we wrote Blurmobile on it. Because I love Blur. And actually, Sarah Lund is the one who introduced me to Blur, she took me to a concert of theirs in Seattle before that, you know, I love them. So we're there. And then after the show, I'm like, Okay, we really need a place to stay tonight. That's nice because I was sleeping on the floor or something like that. And then oh, and we had this song Kiss and Ride right and it has the line “fuck and run” in it, which I had completely stolen from Liz Phair. Our song came out first because she hadn't released her album yet, but although she had her girly sound tapes, but those were just kind of hand dealt with tapes, you know, traded, so of course that's where I heard it. I never knew she was gonna be famous and everything. I was so lame that I did but I just thought Oh, that's such a great line. So I just put Fuck and Run. I think back then I used to- we had so many things that were self referential within a community or a scene, or even other songs you know, I'd have like Johnny Cash references and things. I didn't think of it as stealing. I just thought like, well, everything- you know, like postmodern, you take scraps of everything and put it together. So anyways, by then she was getting popular and I think the record either had come out or was about come out. So I just was like, okay, the line in this song Fuck and Run. I just want you to know even though ours came out for us, it was Liz Phair. Like, I stole it from early sound, okay, just saying that. And then when I get off stage and we're finished, someone comes up to me and I it's really dark. I can hardly see it. And they're like, hey, and so I was like someone wants to talk to you. Hey, and it was Liz Phair. I didn't know she was in London- she was doing press apparently in London, and she come to our show, and I know she was her. She came right up. She was like you stole my song! But she was kidding. I was like, Oh my God. And she was like, No, whatever. And then I was like, What are you doing here? And I was like, Where are you staying? She was like a hotel. And I was like, Oh, can I go stay with you tonight? I don't want to sleep on a hard, cold floor. And she's like, hell no, no one ever stays with me in my hotel rooms. And I was like what? She shut that down. But then we ended up going to Oxford and staying with Heavenly. And we stayed with them for several days. And then we did that, like the big leg of the tour. And what was booked was booked by Amelia Fletcher from Heavenly. So they really took us under their wing. But I do remember the very next night I think when we played in Brighton, or a night or two later, we played in Brighton. And I remember we stayed at John Slade from Huggy Bear’s house and Jerry from you know, with Jerry Thackray, like the writer Everett True. He was living there too. And Dale Shaw lived at this group house in Brighton. So I remember going there and talking to John. I was like, Oh my God, he's dreamy. And then we played the show. And then that night, I remember where we all going to sleep. And I was like beeline to John’s room. I was like, I'm sleeping with you in that room. And he's like, all right, but then somehow, I went in the bathroom, and then Erin went in there. And she's like, No, I'm sleeping in there. And so she's in there. So that's like, whatever. So I started laying my sleeping bag down in the hall in the doorway of the bathroom, really dumb, but in the hallway- I think because someone was in Dale's room, but I remember like, I think his feet smelled. I was like, uh uh, I'm not sleeping in there, or someone was in the living room. But I'm in the hallway, right head inside the bathroom or something. And then Erin comes running out five minutes later, she's like, Oh, I can't do it. You go in there. You can have him, and I'm like, okay, and I'm so excited. I'm going in that room and I'm going to sleep in a bed. And I get into John Slade's room and there's no bed in there. He has no bed. He would sleep on a sheet, not even a blanket, a sheet on a floor. And there were like weird little toys and cassette tapes and stuff all around the sheet. Like I just was like, so deflated. I was like, Oh my god. Okay. But I liked him. So we probably made out a little but anyways...

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Kelsey Smith 47:43  

I have to keep myself muted because I keep like laughing boisterously at your stories.

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Allison Wolfe  47:51  

I'm giving you the stuff I don't usually tell in interviews.

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Kelsey Smith 47:54  

They’re so great. it's all so good.

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Allison Wolfe  47:58  

But anyway, so yeah. And then of course later I found out that Joe Johnson from Huggy bear and John Slade who had been going out they had just broken up. I didn't know that and they'd been going out for seven years. And she was not one bit happy when she found out about me and him making out. So then the final leg of our tour we did with Huggy Bear in the West Country no less, like weird ass places that no one ever goes to, like St Ives and Plymouth, and we played on a boat and a rock. Anyway, John set those shows up, John Slade. There's fun but weird. And then, like, I suddenly wasn't allowed to talk to him. And she wouldn't speak to me, but I was not allowed to even speak to John anymore. And I didn't understand why he was ignoring me. I was so mad. But I didn't know all the backstory, you know, so I was like what? Anyway, that was kind of funny. I ended up staying an extra week though. And then I just took a train down to Brighton and hung out with him. I was allowed to have a few days. Anyways. And then of course, I overstayed my visa, because Slim didn't arrange mine. I stayed longer than everyone else. And so I didn't know that my visa was- I told him, you know, he bought the ticket. I was staying longer, but he didn't arrange my visa that way. So I kind of got in trouble when I was leaving, but whatever. So that was England. It was great. Um, I think eventually I'm trying to think I don't know what else happened. I think at some point I just realized I needed to finish school. I did actually go back to Thailand at some point before- I know what it was. I went back to Thailand for kind of a study abroad thing through Evergreen in the like winter- Maybe early when or late winter early spring of 93. So I’d also just come back from Thailand. I've been there like four months, I remember Erin thought that I was going to stay forever and never come back because I kept extending my stay, my visa there. But I knew that every time I would go plead my case at immigration, they would just give me a little bit extra time. It was like one extra week, and then it was five extra days. And then it was three extra days. And finally, it was like one day and I'm like, Okay, I'm gone. So yeah, anywho. But, so I just done that. And so, you know, I've traveled a lot. Yeah. And I think at that point, I was just like, you know, you just got to finish school because I kept taking quarters off to do stuff, band stuff, or go to Thailand or whatever. And I'd already waited a year to start college anyways, you know, because I was in Thailand for a year. So as an exchange student, so anyways, I think that's when I kind of started buckling down a little. I think when I finally graduated- 

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Kelsey Smith 50:54  

I'm gonna have me pause for one second outside because my frickin dog is barking. He was barking really loud. I think he's done. I'm sorry. Keep going.

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Allison Wolfe  51:05  

No, that's all right. I also have my phone on, but I have to because I'm blocking my neighbor. And so if I get called to move my car, I might have to… So I think at that point, I was just so sick of being broke. In Olympia, there were like, no jobs. And everyone knew each other. So my mom was always a big Hustler, right? You know, she grew up really poor and was like, Well… Why are you always broke? Why don't you work harder? Why don't you get a job. And I'm like, Well, I'm always going on tour, you know, or whatever. But like, the thing is, is you could get a job and work this crappy minimum wage job for three months, but then you'd have to quit to go on tour, no one was going to just let you go on tour really. And I had a hard time, I couldn't- I was a bad liar. I couldn't just lie to people and act like I would stay forever. So it was really hard for me and I was always broke. I was sick of always being broke. And, and I remember even just applying for a job once to be a barista, or whatever the fuck at Batdorf and Bronson. And I remember filling out the application. It was pages long, and it was all essay questions. And I remember I was so mad. I just ended up writing. I can't believe that we have to be like intellectual college type people writing essays to get a coffee job. Of course, I didn't get the job, but I was like, letting them have it in the essay questions. I was like, fuck this.

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Kelsey Smith 52:41  

I remember that application as well. Yeah, it was hard.

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Allison Wolfe  52:45  

Like, come on. It's just coffee. I mean, I know coffee is good in the northwest, but there doesn't need to be a philosophy around it. So anyways, yeah, so it was hard for me to get a job. So I think, you know, finally I just and then when I'd visit DC, there was jobs everywhere. You know, there was it was easy to just kind of work at the Second Story Books or whatever. So I finally was like, You know what, as soon as I graduate, I'm moving to DC, where there's jobs. There's a music community there, whatever. So I have that in my mind. But also… I don't really want to talk about it too much. But we have to come eventually to the breakup of Bratmobile... and that was in I think it was right around Mother's Day of 94 I believe. When we finally broke up. We hadn't really been talking much we lived in all these different places. We weren't really getting along, I think it was Sassy magazine who flew us- I know they flew us out once- to New York for a show at wetlands I believe. But I'm not sure if they flew us out again for something at thread waxing space on Broadway in like Soho or something… Which was like an art space that we played. And that was our final show from the first round of Bratmobile. And I remember it was blonde redhead opening for us, mind you. And there were like four bands. I think scarce was it that played opening as well. I think there were four bands, so it must have been someone else. But I was just already having a hard time. I just felt like I was a wimp who had just taken on too much. Riot Grrrl was starting to eat itself. I felt like there were these girls who hated me or something or were trying to bring me down or whatever and I was just sucking it up instead of just actually sticking up for myself or being like- I at least just need to play show. So I just kind of let it all fall apart onstage. It was my fault but I do remember though at soundcheck like Sonic Youth were there. I think we like we're hanging out at Julia Cafritz's apartment from Pussy Galore, just all this stuff. And Joan Jett was there on stage with us. It was crazy. And yeah, and I do remember Pussy Galore was there. And Sonic Youth. So it was like a big deal. And of course, I couldn't enjoy any of it. And I just end up crying on stage, and we break up on stage. And that was that. And then I remember calling my mom the next day for Mother's Day. And she was like, it's just such a nice Mother's Day to be on my own with no kids. And I was like aaaaaaah, fuck you! like maybe I hadn't really told her what was going on. But like, I just remember being like, Oh my God, My life sucks.

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Kelsey Smith 55:58  

So did you actually not finish your set?

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Allison Wolfe  56:02  

You know, we almost didn’t. I think Molly or Erin was like, fuck this. I'm out. And I think Molly left the building. But somehow, and Erin left the stage. I'm standing up there crying. But I think somehow someone convinced them to come back. And we just played a few more songs, but yeah. Spin magazine, I think had a story on it. And I was wearing this t shirt that said lollipops. And I remember this girl actually, she contacted me recently. And she still has the t shirt because I gave it to her because I'm like, “I'm getting rid of everything.” I wish I had it now. But she said she's gonna give it to her daughter. It's like, okay, well, if you ever get rid of it, give it back to me. But it's funny, because she wore it after that. And people would recognize her and go wait, were you in Bratmobile? Same shirt. But yeah, that was a sad day. But I think by then Everything just seemed to be falling apart. Everyone was fighting, Riot Grrrl was falling apart, everyone- there was so much backlash against so many of us… I think that's why after that it kinda was weird when eventually, you know, the Experience Music Project- Now the MoPOP or whatever, when they wanted to do a retrospective on Riot Grrrl- We never saw ourselves as something that was sort of like, history worthy, or document worthy, canon worthy, nothing. Because we were just kind of ashamed that it didn't work out, really.

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Kelsey Smith 57:36  

...you were up against a lot, at that time.

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Allison Wolfe  57:43  

Well, also, we were just I was like young and dumb. And I mean, I am the first to admit I am really immature. I will always be the last one to figure anything out. And so, you know, I just felt young and dumb. And like, we were just figuring everything out on stage, or in recordings or whatever, you know. So it's like, what do we know? But then, you know, eventually like, so I was living in DC by then. And I stayed there, whatever. And I don't know, Erin and I became friends again. And because all of us didn't talk for a while. And then me and her would go to this 80s night, like a new wave dance night in Adams Morgan in DC. And so then we started it was I don't know if it was like once a month or something or it was every week, I can't remember but we’d go pretty often. And then she'd come over a little early. And then we would like go in the basement and practice. So we started writing songs and we formed Cold Cold Hearts. And then she added Nattles and Catherine Brown and yeah, so anyways, probably didn't last that long without being in a band.

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Kelsey Smith 59:00  

I really liked. I really like Cold Cold Hearts.

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Allison Wolfe  59:03  

You know, it's funny. It's like, I feel like, you know, like Bratmobile gets the most recognition and I understand, but recording wise, my favorite bands I'd have been in or like Cold Cold Hearts. Then we did Deep Lust. And Sex Stains, and Cool Moms actually, you know, so I just sort of found the later bands a little more interesting. But you know, you could draw a horse to water...

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Kelsey Smith 59:33  

I saw Deep Lust here when you were in Olympia it was good.

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Allison Wolfe  59:38  

Oh for Yoyo, was it?

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Kelsey Smith 59:40  

This was like, later than later than Yoyo...

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Allison Wolfe  59:50  

We played once at the Capitol Theatre.

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Kelsey Smith 59:52  

I think it was tat like Obsidian. Oh, interesting. Like... maybe six or seven years ago. Did you play?

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Allison Wolfe  1:00:03  

Oh no, no, Sex Stains.  Sex Stains.

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Kelsey Smith 1:00:06  

That was Sex Stains. Okay.

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Allison Wolfe  1:00:09  

Yeah, you're right. It was there. Yeah. And we played with ROCKHNO or whatever they’re called. It was fun. It's kind of cool to go back and visit Olympia and just see that there's still like, cool people living there doing cool things. It makes me happy. So yeah, I don't know. Anyways, so that was kind of that- but then, after Cold Cold Hearts, I did Deep Lust in DC for a while. And then Bratmobile ended up getting back together. Why? I don't know why. But we did. And, and then I remember,  flying out to the Bay Area, Erin and I did, because Molly was living there, and practicing and practicing. And then I remember Fugazi was out there at the same time. And they were playing a bunch of shows up and down the coast. And they actually invited us to open for them. And stupidly, we said no, because Molly was like, well, there's no way we'll be ready in time. And we want to be good when we're on stage. I wish we'd said yes. Because I think Fugazi may have broken up not long after that. That was probably like 98 or something. Maybe 99, 98, I think. And anyway, so we didn't play with Fugazi- dumb. But we did end up playing our first show back. I believe it was 98, spring or something. I think we kind of did it for Seth Bogart’s. birthday. He was young. He said it was his 18th birthday. You might have been actually 19 I don't know. But and we charged $1. So that we could play the sound person. And that was at Stork Club. And that was fun. But I do remember like someone reviewing the show later, some guy writing it up and kind of, you know, writing about us like we were old hags or something, like talking about me gasping and holding my sides and having a hard time catching my breath and all that. And it's just so wild. Because you know, if you really look at the clock, it was four years later. And I wasn't even 30 yet. Like fuck you.

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Kelsey Smith 1:02:24  

Well, and you're an extremely energetic performer. So like, I'd love to see him try that, you know.

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Allison Wolfe  1:02:31  

Yeah, that's true. I do. I do move around a bit much. So it's hard to catch my breath. But I mean, it was just so weird. You know, it's like, people don't describe the Stones like that. You know what I mean? But they'll describe women like that. Yeah.

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Kelsey Smith 1:02:47  

Total double standard.

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Allison Wolfe  1:02:51  

Yeah, totally. So that started happening again. And then. And I was for a little bit. I was doing Deep Lust and Bratmobile at the same time, because I think both. I'm not sure. But I think both both. Yeah, both bands played CMJ. And I think we both played Yo Yo a Go Go. So that was and that was a little hard. But then, you know, things fell apart with Deep Lust….And so then at some point in then we were actually touring a lot, we ended up touring with the Donnas In Europe, we also toured with the Donnas for a month and a half across the US. But this time, we were really operating out of the bay area more or less, you know, and I was living in DC. And so Erin ended up moving to the Bay Area. So I think that while we did have a meeting with with Slim Moon from Kill Rock Stars about doing new albums on kill rock stars. I think it was like, we just kind of felt like at that point, none of us lived in Olympia anymore. Molly and Erin both were working for Lookout at the time. And I just felt like well, maybe we can keep a better eye- Well, it wasn't really my decision. But we felt like we could keep a better eye on things if we're on the label that is where we're kind of based now. But I know that Slim wasn't happy about that. And in the end, I think it was a conflict of interest. Actually, in the end I'm kind of not happy about it either. I wish we had gone on Kill Rock Stars. Because I felt like it was a conflict of interest to have two of my bandmates working for the label. So sometimes it was like the label’s best interests- Often it was the label’s best interests that made decisions for the band, and not the bands necessarily. So anyways. But yeah, but I ended up going back to Olympia a lot in 98 and 99 to spend more time because my mom was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in, I believe it was 98. I mean, I still spent summers back in Olympia often anyways, but I kind of started spending more time. And then we were on tour in Europe with the Donnas when my mom had basically been told by her doctor that the chemo wasn't working. And so she decided to go off of it. And so I flew, you know, it was really- it was so and it was hard to reach me like, I think my sisters had to message Donna… Donna Dresch was on tour, she was a roadie for us a lot of the time in Europe. So she was with us. And she's like, Dude, you gotta go home. So I flew home, like that night or the next day, and it was just terrible. But anyway, so then I was in Olympia, until my mom died. But, you know, I needed some things to do also, to kind of occupy my time. My mom didn't want everyone hovering over her all the time. So I started filling mail order at Kill Rock Stars. And I and that's when The Gossip had moved to Olympia. And that's when I got to know Nathan, because I would think I was also stuffing records and stuff at K. I don't know, I was going around. But Nathan would invite me out to parties and stuff. And it was just a good way to kind of get my mind off the heavier things that were going on at home. And then Nathan and I kind of started going out or whatever. That was fun. But then I just got to be a bit much because he would call me and- I guess I didn't have a cell phone or anything. And yeah, no, I didn't. And so he would call my landline, my mom's and it was starting to bother her like, you know, I was like, “Look, I can't, she goes to bed early. I just can't have people calling here. I'll call you if I'm going to come out,” or whatever, you know- and then he just started dating someone else, and I got really mad. I felt abandoned or something... Obviously, it was a really hard time. 

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Kelsey Smith 1:07:19  

Allison, do you have something you're touching, like paper or something?

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Allison Wolfe  1:07:22  

Oh, it might be my hair. Hold on. Oh, wait, is it crackling? I think it's, wait, let me do I'm gonna switch this so that it comes across my. I think that maybe that'll be better

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Kelsey Smith 1:07:35  

It's okay. Just it just started.

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Allison Wolfe  1:07:38  

okay… anyways, I do remember, I was filling out mail order at Kill Rock Stars. And that was when actually the Deep Lust album came out- the CD, we thought we were going to do a record too. But at the last minute, Slim told us like, no, it's just going to be CD only. We're like, “What? we already designed the record cover and everything.” But so I remember Deep Lust, the month that it came out, They're always getting all these mail orders that said they wanted the record  or the CD and it wasn't there. And I remember I would ask Tobi every day, what should I do about it? And she was like, “Oh, I don't know. I don't know why Mortem hasn't seen it yet. It's not in.” And she was like, “Well, I usually just fill it with something else, and people don't usually complain, we just give them something else and throw some extra goodies in there.” But you know, this kept happening for weeks. And I remember just finally being like, “This is my fucking band that you're asking me to do this with. And no one's trying to resolve whatever the situation is.” And I was kind of bummed. So I think I finally went and talked to someone else to look into it, probably Maggie. And it turns out that the order had gotten canceled because it was tied to some other band that Justin was in at the time, like Severed Lethargy, I don't know some other band that Justin from Unwound was doing at the time. And they were touring down the coast. So they just said, oh, we'll pick up our CDs or records in the Bay Area from Mortem. So the whole order got cancelled. So the Deep Lust, so this is one thing that kind of pisses me off is the month that Deep Lust came out, there were no CDs in stock the entire month. And so you know, sometimes when people are like, Oh, why didn't that record do better? And I was like, Well, I'll tell you why- part of why. And I watched it, and I had to watch it. And finally I was like, please look into this. And you know, after a month it finally was looked into but by then all the people who wanted that got other CDs sent to them instead. So anyways, these were some of the reasons that- I also was helping fill press orders and stuff for Kill Rock Stars for other bands. And I think I saw a little bit of shenanigans going on with some of that where I just felt like the best job wasn't being done. And that's not necessarily any one person's fault, but it seemed like a ramshackle operation. So to me, I kind of at the time was like, Well, yeah, maybe we shouldn't be on Kill Rock Stars anyways, because they're fucking up all over the place is what I saw. Anyways, but I'm still kind of mad about the Deep Lust thing, because I really love that album. I also think it should be released on record now, vinyl. Just sayin’. That's also because Tommy passed away, our guitarist, recently. Tommy Orr, from Centralia, Washington.

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Kelsey Smith 1:10:54  

Is he related to Steve.

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Allison Wolfe  1:10:57  

No, he is related to Michelle May from the Make Up and Frumpies, they’re brother and sister. Yeah. So that's how he kind of came into my life. She dragged him out to DC and then we started playing together with Steve Dorr. Steve Dorr and Tommy Orr. Yeah, that was a fun band. But I kind of had to do all the logistical stuff. And that got a little bit tired. Like, I'm the only one who drove. At some point, they both sold all their equipment. So then we could only play with bands who had loaned us their equipment, which usually meant the Make Up luckily, not a bad band to have to rely on. But still. It's like, it did suck to always have to be asking to borrow people's equipment just to play shows.

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Kelsey Smith 1:11:50  

Like, getting used to that equipment, too.

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Allison Wolfe  1:11:54  

Yeah, well, I would like to her so I don't care. Like if they're dumb enough to sell their equipment then What can I say? I'm singing? I have my mic, you know.

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Kelsey Smith 1:12:07  

Okay, so we're so we're… back in Olympia, Late 90s. And then you stayed a little, right?

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Allison Wolfe  1:12:24  

Well, I was so- like, I think what I did at that point, I think I was back in Olympia straight for six months straight when my mom was dying. And then my mother died- Pat Shively, she died on February 16 2000. And I think I stayed a month or two after that. And then I went back to DC for a while. And then after that, I would come back to Olympia sometimes in summers, but I feel like I never came back for as much times after she died. So during that time too you know, yeah, I was doing, you know, filling mail order stuff at Kill Rock Stars. A little bit at K. going to shows and some things like that, hanging out at parties, mostly, I guess. But also, I think a little bit before that was when I helped organize the whole Experience Music Project get together with former Riot Grrrls. And then they did all the interviews. I'm kind of the one who helped them connect with all the people and fly them out and stuff like that. And I helped set up like a performance night. So then we have a show and stuff like that. I'm pretty sure it was what The Gossip wasn't it? I think it was, yeah, something, I don't know.

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Kelsey Smith 1:13:46  

And the interviews were in the Martin laundry room, correct?

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Allison Wolfe  1:13:50  

Yes. They were conducted in the Martin apartments laundry room. Yes. Pretty funny. Yeah, it was pretty good. It was kind of nice, but I think it was there, during that kind of Riot Grrrl retrospective gathering, that me and Corin Tucker started talking, but also me and Sharon Cheslow. And we were just kind of like, we need to somehow harness this- The energy and community we felt from Riot Grrrl but actually put it towards a more tangible goal. Because I think that was one problem that we saw with Riot Grrrl was there never was like kind of a goal that we were working towards. You know, nothing was clear at all. So we talked about Lady fest. I think Corin Tucker wanted to do a traveling festival, you know, more like a Lilith Fair-y type thing. But I just was like, I don't know. I think if we just do one thing in place in Olympia, it would make the most sense especially because Olympia is accessible. It's cheaper to do things here. You've got tons of women owned businesses and people who would support us, we’ve got a big community here and in the whole northwest, we have all sorts of awesome people here who can help make it happen. And let's do this for 2000, for the new millennium- and it was also kind of a pushback against things like Woodstock 99, and Warped Tour where women were getting raped and harassed and things like that and just fucked up sexist shit. So, we were kinda like, you know, what, we still have to create the community we want to see, you know, that doesn't die just because we're a little older now or whatever. We still got to do it. And I still feel that way, like we have to continue doing it, you know. So that was kind of what how Lady Fest came up, came to happen, or was the idea was birthed. I came. So you know, I kind of came up with the idea. I came up with the name for sure. But I think by the time meetings really started to happen, it was when I was set to fly back to DC. And I think that for me, that whole year was just so difficult. After my mom died, I just couldn't really be a big part of the planning process. So I don't have a whole lot to say about the planning of Lady Fest, because I really wasn't there. I didn't plan most of it.

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Kelsey Smith 1:16:23  

But you did some of the booking of bands, correct? That’s kind of important.

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Allison Wolfe  1:16:27  

Yeah, yeah. And I think we all had enough. You know, like connections and stuff to get really good bands there. I mean, you know, yeah, we had like Holly Golightly and cat power. And we had Neko case, and Sleater Kinney, of course, Bratmobile, whatever, you know, all this stuff. So who else? I don't know. I can't remember…  the Gossip, of course. But you know, so many great bands. And it was really fun. 

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Kelsey Smith 1:16:57  

Wanda Jackson?

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Allison Wolfe  1:17:00  

That's right. Okay. Yep, I forgot. But yeah, I know. Well, that was one. The one thing that bummed me out was the country night. I think it was important that we set that aside. But I think the kind of the people who were the steering committee or whatever in charge, they basically- because the whole festival sold out, they called that show sold out. And there were all these older women and lesbians and stuff in Olympia, who wanted to go just to the country night, and they wouldn't sell individual tickets to them. Oh, it's sold out? Well, The Gossip played a party on the other side of town that night, and every goddamn punk went to that party. Yeah, in direct conflict with the country night. And I'm still mad at them for that. And they did that. But it also meant that there was no one there at the country show. So it was not sold out. But by the time the organizers figured that out, and that they should have just gone ahead and sold local tickets to that, you know, all the women are in bed, thinking they can't go to a concert tonight. So it was a real bummer. It was a real lack of foresight and other unfortunate things. 

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Kelsey Smith 1:18:11  

But kind of like a generational- like not considering that generation that kind of inspired them when they were growing up?

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Allison Wolfe  1:18:23  

Exactly. Yeah, you're right. I mean, you're right. I felt like it was inconsiderate towards an older community in Olympia, that really was an important part of it. And they were trying to be part of it. And they were kind of kept out of it. And yeah, I just felt like there was a lot of kind of lack of just respect. involved with that. It has me off. And it was such a great night. I was so bummed that so many people missed it. I think Rose Melberg played with her mom that night. It was super cool. You know? Anyways, that was too bad. So yeah, Lady Fest, but you know, it was fun. And then I thought it was really cool. Because after that, people just kind of took the rough idea of it and ran with it. So then after helping do Lady Fest, the first one and Olympia, then Bratmobile went on to play Lady Fest, Glasgow the next summer. And that was awesome. It was a much smaller affair, but it was cool. It was like a small group of women who- their moms worked it too. So it was like an intergenerational thing. It was awesome. There was like people's moms working security work. Yeah, working the door, doing the stage managing all this stuff. That was a really cool thing to see. And there was like this one youth hostel that all the bands stayed in together. So it was like punk rock dorms. That was pretty fun. And then we flew to Chicago that same summer of 2001. Yeah, and played Lady Fest, Chicago. which was also amazing. And that was I think the- at least the first show I know of- of ESG getting back together and playing. And we opened, we played before them. So that was really awesome of course to be a part of. Yeah. And then I've been to many Lady Fests since and it's always really cool just to see what each community does that puts on that speaks to their community, or they're using the resources or people they have in their direct community. It's really cool.

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Kelsey Smith 1:20:30  

I'm really excited to see ESG this summer. Gonna be so good. And you, so excited. And Morgan and the Organ Donors, and oh my gosh...

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Allison Wolfe  1:20:48  

And Miko Miko...

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Kelsey Smith 1:20:52  

And the Rondelles! It’s a good lineup. Well, I feel like this might be a good place to kind of like, you know, not wrap it, but like, do you want to, I feel like you kind of started talking a little bit about just, you know, sort of, like the, the influence that Lady Fest had, you know, on the community and maybe like, you know, just tying that into Riot Grrrl’s influence now. And, you know, all of the other festivals’ influence and and the Olympia scene, do you want to just kind of like, tie that up in a bow about like, what you think today is still kind of, like resonating from from those times? There's a lot of time, it’s like 20 years, but you know.

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Allison Wolfe  1:21:48  

Well, obviously Lady Fest was also somewhat inspired by the festivals in Olympia that came before it, for sure. The International Pop Underground Convention, and especially ladies night, or Girl Night, Sorry, ladies, Girl Night. So that was, you know, “hey, let's have a whole festival like that, where women are involved organizing on every level, you know, organizing doing everything.” So that was cool. And also non binary. I don't want to say it's just women. But you know, I think I'm pretty sure you know, we were open to also like, people who were gender fluid. And I think that there were guys who helped out here and there too in ways, you know, obviously, but it was such a cool thing. I yeah, I think it's you know, it was cool to see it spread around and just see that it was this concrete thing that people could work towards, together. And I think a lot of kind of interesting bonds came out of that. I know that at least like in Lady Fest, Bristol, I, which I also played a few years later. Like this whole, this group called Local Kid Gang came out of it, where they were like a record label, booking and tour management for indie bands, and a vegan Cafe started and like, eventually a record store and a little art gallery. And these are all people who met through organizing Lady Fest, and they went on to do really cool things. Or in Washington, DC at the Lady Fest, there was a women's DJ collective that came out of it. And it was called First Lady's DJ collective… really awesome. And then also, a women's art collective came out of it, I think it was called District of Ladies. So all these people met and continue to do things after Lady Fest. So I think that was really important. It was like, community forming and bonding as well. And creating. And I think, you know, after we'd seen like, also, Yo Yo, I liked Yo Yo a Go Go, you know, we made sure to do it on a year that Yo Yo wasn't going to happen. And then Homo a Go Go, I just think all these things kind of spawn off of each other. It inspired each other really, where we’re like, “Oh, we can do this, but kind of tailor it to this need or this thing, that we want more representation, for women, queers,” you know, all this.

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Kelsey Smith 1:24:15  

I guess I would just add that, like so many younger people that are in Olympia now. are here because of all of that stuff that happened before. So like, you know, like, last night I found one show. So there were like, you know, young, young young people, I would say like, you know, there were some kids, but then there were also like, you know, maybe 18 to 24 year olds and like, this was happening before they were you know- they were not even born yet. They're here in Olympia for because of that. So I think that's really awesome. You did that, you all did that. So…

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Allison Wolfe  1:25:01  

Yeah, you're right. I guess a lot of people did end up moving to Olympia because of all these things. And you're right, and kind of kept the scene alive. So that's really cool because a lot of us oldies moved away. Tobi? Never! Which I, you know, I admire the lifers too. Her contributions are important, like in her continued contribution to the Olympia scene is really invaluable and important, you know, and shows that she believes in it, you know.

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Kelsey Smith 1:25:34  

She’s been invaluable to this project, completely, completely invaluable.

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Allison Wolfe  1:25:40  

Yeah, and she's always into the latest, you know... checking out what's going on, the fresh things in town.

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Kelsey Smith 1:25:48  

Do you have any closing thoughts? This was an epic, this is like a four hour interview. I wonder, I wonder who's gonna have to do the transcription for this one. It's not me. 

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Allison Wolfe  1:26:07  

You guys feed it through a machine first, right? Okay, good. But it's still a lot of cleanup. Yeah, I don't know. I know, I feel bad. I feel like I talked shit about a lot of people… Stories are just kind of, to me, even though I sound like I'm still mad, I think it's kind of funny. [laughing] But it also just kind of shows how, a lot of stuff, we were just flying by the seat of our pants, we didn't know what we were doing. Even the labels didn't know what they were doing.

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Kelsey Smith 1:26:36  

We're human, we are, we're all human. We do human things. We make mistakes. I mean, you're not the only person that had things to say about different aspects of this time. So you're not alone. I think it's okay. But that being said, you know, we'll obviously share this with you. And you get to decide. Oh, I should probably stop the video now that we're talking about this. So any last? Any last thoughts before I hit stop recording?

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Allison Wolfe  1:27:11  

Um, I don't know. I don't know what to say. I mean, you know, it, Olympia will always be my home. But you know, when I really look at it, I think I basically lived there from I don't know, like, 1982 through 94, maybe up to 95. You could say, you know, that's like 15 years. But now in LA. I mean, in DC, I think I lived for 13 years. And then I was in New York for like two or three. And then now it'll soon be 13 years in LA. So it's weird to think that I might end up being in LA longer than I lived in Olympia, but for sure, Olympia is my home. And my second home would be DC, you know? And then I guess, LA, my third maybe. And then also Dyersburg, Tennessee. [laughing]

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Kelsey Smith 1:28:06  

Those were extremely formative years that you were here at Olympia, though. Probably the most formative years for most people at that time of their lives. And you are always a part of Olympia and so is your entire you know- so are your sisters and so is your mom, like, so beloved here.

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Allison Wolfe  1:28:35  

Oh, thank you.

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