Ali Baker: Good evening, my name is Ali Baker. I'm talking with Rachel Carns and Radio Sloan of The Need, not to mention countless other iconic bands and music projects. Thank you both for joining me today. And thank you both for your incredible talents and contribution to music in the Pacific Northwest and all over the world.

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Radio Sloan: Thank you!

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Rachel Carns: Awfully nice of you.

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Ali Baker: So I guess I'll start with - The Need was a really influential and essential queercore/post-punk/metal/badass band that resided in Olympia from 1997 to 2001. What inspired the both of you to start playing music?

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Rachel Carns: You mean separately?

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Ali Baker: Yeah, sorry. Yeah, like what inspired the two of you each to start playing music to start with?

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Rachel Carns: Well, I grew up in an extremely religious household. My dad was a preacher, a Baptist preacher, fundamentalist Christian type. And there were only certain kinds of music that were allowed. Rock music was not one of them. But I started taking piano lessons. I think I was… seven or eight when I started taking piano lessons and it was just like, a huge escape route for me within that [super isolated] oppressive atmosphere. Music was my thing. I would just go downstairs and play the piano–but only very constricted [types] of music. [No rock & roll, only god-praising stuff…I was the church pianist for a while and] one time I got in trouble for playing “boogie-woogie” in the sanctuary. Anyway, that's how I started playing music. I was a big piano lesson nerd. [I even taught piano lessons for a while.]

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Radio Sloan: So I-- completely opposite-- grew up in a family where we owned a bar. And my grandpa was a coin op guy, had a collection of jukeboxes, and there's always music happening, and partying and all this sort of stuff. And I actually thought I was going to be a pro skater, when I was like 11, or 12, that's in the ‘80s. That's when everything just was going off with that. And I think I was 12. And I pretty much busted up my knee really badly. And that just ruined it for me because I couldn't skate. I didn't know what to do. The only other thing I could think of that sounded cool, was to play the drums. And it was a really good way to work on my knee. So I started playing drums. And I'm just from then, you know, I have to find somebody to play guitar that came over, and then we just-- punk music just happened then, at that time. It was out of therapy, and I never skateboard again, because I started to grow boobs. It had totally stopped any kind of athleticism, during that time period. And so that literally is why I started playing music.

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Ali Baker: Awesome.

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Radio Sloan: Kinda! [laughing]

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Ali Baker: I mean, I’m glad you play music. I'm sorry about your knee.

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Radio Sloan:  Oh, It's okay, [it sorted out]

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Ali Baker: Like I said, you are all a very influential and essential queer core post punk metal band in Olympia. But before moving to Olympia, Washington, you were living in Portland together and playing in a band called CC Barnes [sic]. Can you tell me about that project? And then, what led to the move to Olympia?

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Rachel Carns: Well, we were trying to recall about-- that was the first question we looked at, and we were trying to recall before we did this interview, and then we have conflicting memories about what happened. So who knows what happened? It doesn't really matter what happened... Well, first thing is that it's the CeBe Barns Band, not the “CC Barnes Band.”

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Ali Baker: Oh my gosh, I'm really sorry about that.

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Radio Sloan: CeBe Barns was a character in this movie “Out of the Blue.” You ever seen that? Make a note of that if you haven't seen it. It's fantastic. It's Dennis Hopper, Linda Manz.

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Rachel Carns: Yeah, ”Out of the Blue” was very influential [on me for sure.]

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, it inspired us at the time a lot. Like feminism was-- I mean, I guess that was one of the first movies I saw with like--

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Rachel Carns:I wouldn't even call the character “female.” Like, a super powerful, gender-complicated character played by a young... woman? I don't know, I hate being binary about it, because Linda Manz’ character is so comple, but seeing a badass, sneering, punk as fuck teenage girl with slicked back hair and cigarettes rolled up in the sleeve of her t-shirt as the main character was just like, YES, this is speaking to me.

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Radio Sloan: I don't either. If I was a kid, I would have called that person “tomboy” at the time, I guess is the way that if they're-- whatever that means. Anyway.

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Ali Baker:  Yeah. And you were inspired? That's where-- CeBe Barns was a character in that? Yeah,

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Radio Sloan: Yeah, that's why we're correcting you about the name or why it matters, is because it's actually a reference to somebody that we thought-- a character that was cool.

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Ali Baker: Absolutely, please correct me.

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Rachel Carns: In the way that I remembered it, was that my band at the time, Kicking Giant, played a show with CeBe Barns band backstage at the Capitol Theater. And then... I just thought you guys were really cool. And you thought I was cool. And you asked me to join your band. And then, I’d just had it with Olympia, because there were no queer people here at the time, except for Donna. And so I moved to Portland to be in your band. But you remember it that we didn't play a show together.

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Radio Sloan: I remember that I came to town. Because we used to know other friends. I had friends in Portland that-- we used to come to Olympia to visit Kathleen and other friends that she lived with at the time. Then we just went to a show and it was Kicking Giant. I just remember seeing Rachel play-- I don't remember playing that show my own self. And just being like, “Oh my god, I have to play music with this person. This is the most incredible drummer I've ever seen in my life.” And I remember walking up to you that night and being like, “Can you just move to Portland and play music with us?”

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Rachel Carns: So yeah, I remember that conversation too, yeah. And I just basically said yes. Like, really, almost right away.

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Radio Sloan: Yeah. And it's really true. It's, I wasn't surprised, because at the time, there really wasn't queer music people in Olympia. I mean, really, just Donna was it, which is crazy to think about, but it really changed. [laughing]

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Rachel Carns: Yeah. That's that, I guess.

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Ali Baker:  Speaking of that, when you did move to Olympia-- or Okay, so you have the projects, CeBe Barns in Portland. How did you decide to move back to Olympia to start The Need?

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Rachel Carns:  That band kind of imploded in the way that super fiery passionate bands with a lot of heavy characters in it often implode. You know, there were just there were a lot of big personalities. And it made for a really, really great band for a short period of time. But everybody had other things to do… people went their separate ways. And Radio and I kept playing together with Miranda [for a bit]. Miranda July was in that band for a short period. We played a few shows together as The Need, [and released some stuff as Miranda July and The Need.]

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Radio Sloan: Yeah, The Need and Miranda July, we were doing like other kinds of shows, other than just rock shows, which was really fun. And I've never done any kind of performance art stuff before. And that was pretty cool. Because you know, we were getting to play gay nightclubs and stuff. That wasn't anything that I'd ever thought could happen, doing kind of some spoken word improvisational stuff.

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Rachel Carns:  And of course, being in a band with Miranda was just like anything-- I mean, who knows what was gonna happen?

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, you know, we could just watch her and just score it. We were literally just  scoring what she was saying and doing, kind of. It's pretty crazy. It's awesome.

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Rachel Carns:  I also remember taping a manual typewriter to my chest. Somehow I like wrapped, with tape, this typewriter on my chest. And then I was jumping around like a bug. [laughing]

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Radio Sloan:  You had green tights on then you were like going all the way jumping with a typewriter for one show, I remember that.

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Rachel Carns:  Well, I don't know, it’s art, man!

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Radio Sloan:  But-- the question was, we moved to Olympia. I think we just didn't have anywhere to live. I think we just we loved playing music with each other. We had parted ways with Miranda at some point, and still wanted to keep playing music together. And I think money just-- we were offered a free place to live in Olympia. I think that's why we came back honestly.

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Rachel Carns: Well-- I think Bikini Kill was on tour and Kathleen let us stay in her house. That was the first thing.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah. So we lived in Kathleen's apartment until they came back. And then somebody else offered us a free place to live.

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Rachel Carns:  Well, it was super cheap. It was above Chinatown, which is now QB. I don't know, $80 a month or something for a room up there? [Just an empty square room with shitty stained office carpet, bathroom down the hall, which was just a filthy utility sink and a broken toilet…]

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Radio Sloan:  We were just poor. That's why we came back. It was cheaper, we wanted to play.

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Ali Baker:  Speaking of Miranda July, can you talk about the album that you made with Miranda, “Margie Ruskie Stops Time” and some of the shows that you all played together in Olympia? How did you all meet and decide to collaborate?

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Rachel Carns:  Well, you knew Miranda before I did, and I'm not sure how y'all met.

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Radio Sloan:  I met Miranda sitting on my porch of my house in Portland, I had painted some giant doors with my girlfriend at the time, with hands on them. And they were pointing at all the different neighbors because they had weird shit going on at the time. And it was the only way we could think to really address that. And she lived down the street, and was going to Reed College, I guess, and just stopped to talk to us because we were weird. And she was really weird, too. And literally, it just was like, you could see somebody who just-- something was off, or maybe totally on. I don't know. Anyway, we literally met on the street and then just kept… finding friends. I know we dated at some point. But also, you say… we never did play with her in Olympia, though. That was very just Portland.

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Rachel Carns:  Did we record that at Horse Kitty? Or where did we record that? I can't remember.

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Radio Sloan:  I think we recorded that album at Smegma, didn't we?

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Rachel Carns:  Oh, yeah, we did. Yeah.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, we recorded that album in Portland. And I, to my knowledge, I don't remember even traveling anywhere with Miranda. That [project] was very Portland based.

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Ali Baker:  So you released a self titled album, “The Need is Dead” with Chainsaw records in Olympia. Can you talk about chainsaw and why you decided to release your music on that record label?

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, at the time, that was the queer label in town. There was K Records and there was Kill Rock Stars. And was there other things that--?

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Rachel Carns:  Y’know, there were probably some other smaller labels, you know, like Punk In My Vitamins, like other smaller cassette type labels, CD type labels. And Donna was a friend [of course]. Small town small queer scene, everybody knows each other. It's just seemed like the obvious-- I don't remember there ever being a thing where she offered. [It just felt natural, like, you know, a family affair!] [laughing]

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Radio Sloan:  We did put out that first seven inch on Kill Rock Stars. But then for the full length, it actually just made sense to go with [Chainsaw] because the time that we wanted to be touring with other queer bands and just feeling connected to queers in other towns. But [at that time those opportunities were] few and far between. [It felt like shooting in the dark in a way, we] would send in our CDs to clubs to get a show, and mail stuff to people. Demos, you know, and no internet. Well, internet happened in the middle of our band, barely.

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Rachel Carns: Barely.

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Radio Sloan:  Rachel was the one who figured that out. I never--I didn't touch a computer til 2004

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Rachel Carns:  [Well I did make us a website, and taught myself super basic HTML, but I certainly wasn’t very internet savvy haha–I was an artist so the website was basically one giant image map that took forever to load over dial-up modem. Donna was the internet savvy one…] Radio, weren’t you a little bit involved with the chainsaw message board here and there, though?

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Radio Sloan:  No, not until 2004. Not until way later.

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Rachel Carns:  Okay. Well, maybe you just like went [online] with [Little] Jesse or something.

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Radio Sloan:  Oh, my roommates were all over that. But I never even had a computer.

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Rachel Carns: [I still have your black leather vest that you scrawled GIVE ME YOUR OLD COMPUTER on the back, haha! Totally from that same era.]

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Rachel Carns:  So Donna made a message board for Chainsaw fans, a chat room sort of thing. Very early, you know, what do you call it? Web 2.0 or beta or whatever. It was super primitive. But that website was incredibly pivotal for a lot of queer kids isolated in various towns, kids who had access to the internet, especially on the west coast, but really nationwide [too]. And [so many of] those [Chainsaw kids] are still friends now. I just saw an Instagram post from like, Jamie Montoya and Cookie Woolner from Subtonix. And they were like, “Chainsaw message board reunion!”

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Radio Sloan: That was really the first [queer] social media thing.

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Rachel Carns:  Yeah. It's like you found people online like yourself, queer kids, you know? Yeah. And that was like your fam. [People from that era are still my fam.]

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Ali Baker: I love that. I wish I had found that. That message board. I was just over in Lacey.

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Rachel Carns:  Lacey?

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Ali Baker:  Yeah, I just didn't know. I grew up in Lacey, and then I moved to Olympia...right I started high school.

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Rachel Carns:  No shit. What year would that have been?

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Ali Baker:  High School? ‘98 is when I started I think?

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Radio Sloan:  So that's why I've never seen you before. If you lived here, you know everybody. [laughing]

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Ali Baker:  Yeah, I came in on the tail end of everything, I think. I knew about y'all, but I mean, not until a little bit later.

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Radio Sloan:  Hey, can I ask you a question? Did you like going to high school out here?

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Ali Baker:  I didn't like going to Olympia High School because I thought it was really, like, jock and preppy and white. And it just wasn't really alternative enough for me. And I went to Avanti. That was a little better, that's the alternative high school downtown.

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Radio Sloan:  Ok, we’re thinking about-- I have a kid too. And we're thinking about moving back to Olympia. And so I'm just asking people about their school experience out here, and if it's better than where I live, because the world is insane. And I'd like to be around people, more [inaudible] community.

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Ali Baker: And I'm also 40 now so you know, things may have changed with Olympia High School. There might be like cooler, more queer kids out, doing their thing than when I was in high school.

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Radio Sloan:  Sure. You know, just picking your brain. Thank you. Yeah,

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Ali Baker:  Yeah, of course, yeah. I think there was cool kids in high school, I just felt like I was always such a dork. So I never really talked to anybody. So Rachel and Radio,  your time signatures in The Need are so cool. And then the fact that you played drums in such a unique way, standing up. And both of your neat, unique musical sensibilities really made and continues to make The Need standout. So when it came to the writing process-- was all that intentional, specific to The Need? Or have you always had that sort of mentality of your creative process in general, the two of you?

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Radio Sloan:  Let me start. I know you have stuff to say about that. But I think before I met Rachel, in general, I thought pretty rock and roll and, like, pretty straight line metal stuff. And I didn't really get into music with strange time signatures and challenging puzzles in that way. I mean, maybe other than Rush would be the one exception. I did grow up listening to Rush playing Rush songs. But Rachel was really the one that wouldn't just let the damn riff go [imitates 4/4 rock guitar riff]. She had to be like, “No, it has to be like [imitates more complex guitar riff].”

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Rachel Carns:  Sorry, I’m such an asshole.

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Radio Sloan:  No no no, but we compromised. And I think that I think the conflict of like, “fuck you,” “fuck you.” ...in a good way, it was really inspirational. And Rachel has shaped my whole future on how I look at a song now. It doesn't just go one way, it's a Rubik's Cube, you got to flip it all different ways and try other things. And, you know, that's when all the feeling and the magic and the tension and the calmness-- I mean, all the layers you can get out of a song, I learned that from working with her. So it is specific to The Need, because I've been in other bands where you don't even touch the cube, that's fine. That’s how it is because it's this one vibe. And that's cool, too. But for me, that's always been the interest, you know, the puzzles, the challenges, you know, good or bad. So… [laughs]

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Rachel Carns:  And you're always willing to go there with me, which I really appreciate.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, well, we've been doing this for-- we did it today! I mean, we still fucking do it. I mean, maybe nobody's there watching, but it's like, we really like each other, we really like hanging out with each other and always have, you know? So yes, it is specific to The Need. But I mean...

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Rachel Carns:  Well, as I mentioned before, I started out as a piano player, and I really thought I kind of thought I was gonna be a classical pianist. Like, even up into high school. I grew up in a really small town, and I was the best in town…[but] you know, it was a small town haha. I won all the awards, whatever, you know. I was good at that thing. And I won some national contest and got a scholarship my senior year to an arts boarding school in Michigan called Interlochen, on a piano scholarship. And I got there, and all the other kids who were [also] the best in their small town were also there on scholarship. And I realized that I just maybe wasn't the best piano player in the world. I changed to a creative writing major, and finished out my year there and then ended up going to art school. And I just gave up playing the piano. But when I was in art school I met Tae Won Yu and we formed the band Kicking Giant. And he had one drum, and we played our first show, I just played one drum. We played our first show in the window of a junk shop in Brooklyn. And then I got another drum and then I got another drum. And so I just sort of made up this stand-up drumming style from the random pieces of junk that I accumulated to make a drumset out of and I always approach it kind of like a piano, like melodies on the piano keyboard that's in front of me, rather than thinking of it like-- I tried to play drums sitting down and it doesn't make any sense to me. So I think approaching the drums that way is what makes it more like a Rubik's cube to me because you can take those melodic shapes and turn them inside out in like a Bach kind of way.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, I mean, that's totally it. If you watch her play drums, everything is totally out of sync! Looks like she's hitting pots and pans and, well, sometimes she is. [laughing] It's crazy. She plays ‘em like a piano. Nobody else plays like her…

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Ali Baker: That's true.

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Rachel Carns:  Well, anyway, that's where I'm from. And do you have a math brain in there, too? I mean, you have that metalhead, math stuff going on. And sometimes I can't figure out what the hell time time signature you’re getting at. Like today, we had to work on it.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, I just hadn't thought to even do that before we met, Rachel. And that was my point. Now, I do like to make things weird and hard. But I didn't know how to do that ‘til I met her.

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Ali Baker:  That's great. How did the political climate and the undercurrent of worldly affairs affect and inspire your music while playing in The Need?

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Radio Sloan:  I felt like honestly, we were living in a bubble.

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Rachel Carns:  I was gonna say [that], but I think we were intentionally creating that bubble, just as a mode of survival.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, we were. Like, at that point in my life, all we were doing was playing music. I don't remember going to that many protests like I used to when I was younger, or getting involved... It was so much about just making music. Except for that it felt more like that was being political in a way.That was the way that I was expressing it at the time… I feel like-- I can't even say that I was reading the news then. It just wasn't on my agenda. And a lot of my friends were talking about it. And so I was involved in conversations. But just my own self, I couldn't hold that interest yet, honestly.  I think that's about the outer world. But the reality is, politics was about feminism and queer stuff. I mean, that was all it was about, for me, at least, at that time. It was like, that was the first thing that needed to get solved in my mind before you could even tackle “the man” or whatever it was, just to start working on people being treated equally. I mean, honestly, you know, this was still a time where shit was really different. You know. So that's one thing to consider, you know?

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Rachel Carns:  Yeah. I mean, it felt to me like, all that stuff was wrapped up in the music we were making at the time, though, and the way that we were living our lives. It felt like we were [actually truly] doing something really important. And that we were part of something really important. And I don't know how to put words on that feeling. But I think other people who were around felt that too. Just being able to go to a show that was totally full of queer people. Just queer joy, you know? Because there wasn't a lot of joy elsewhere for us at that time. Like we'd go on tour and our car would break down somewhere. All the time. And it was terrifying. It was terrifying. It was like you knew what was going to happen.

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Radio Sloan:  Our first tour we toured with a gun, a loaded gun. I mean, that's how seriously scary and scared we were. It was just us, you know?

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Rachel Carns:  And we did not-- that was not a legal gun. That was-- I cannot believe that we got away with that. Thankfully, we never-- did it ever get pulled out from under the seat? I never--

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Radio Sloan:  I think we pulled it out one night because we were really scared in a club coming and going. And that was it, but it was stupid. [laughing] Anyway, yeah. Side note.

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Rachel Carns:  Yeah, not cool. But that was the climate at the time.

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Ali Baker:  That reminded me of a question that I actually wanted to ask you… in Olympia, like back in those times were there any creative spaces, venues or places that felt inclusive, safe, accepting, that you remember standing out, or that you feel contributed to a lot of the music that was coming out of Olympia at the time?

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Rachel Carns:  There was so much going on.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, there were a lot of places. Capitol Theater, and the Midnight Sun,

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Rachel Carns:  Arrowspace, Dumpster Values and Phantom City, that whole conglomerate.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, but mostly dude, the house shows off the fucking hook. That's the fun thing, is the house shows in Olympia were just awesome. Personally, like every house I lived in, I fucking lived for setting up house shows and making sure the bands from out of town got to play and hang out in such an intimate setting. I mean, that for me, that's a lot of the best shows in my life, was these Olympia house shows. I mean, by far, you know? Everybody looking out for each other, you don't have to worry about some asshole roofie-ing or being a creeper. And because, Olympia at the time-- I don't know how it is here now, but it was so-- the scene was so cool. Everybody took care of everybody. Nobody's fighting or like being a dick. Know what I mean? Like, it was just a bunch of nice kids having fun. So those are the venues that I remember the most, is the houses. I mean, there should-- Is there a documentary about the houses, the house shows here ever?

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Ali Baker: There should be.

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Rachel Carns:  Someone made a Red House documentary.

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Radio Sloan:  That's just the one house, though. So there's another project.

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Ali Baker:  I was just gonna ask you if you played at the Red House. I'm sure you played at the Red House 1000 times.

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Radio Sloan:  31:53  

I didn't. I didn't, Rachel lived there.

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Rachel Carns:  Yeah, that's where I lived. That's where I lived when I first moved to Olympia. And that's where I moved from when I moved to Portland. And actually, one time I was out of town on tour and I guess Radio stayed in my room. This was before we met each other.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, I slept in her room before I even met her. How's that for [foreshadowing?] [inaudible, laughter]? I thought she was really weird, too. I looked at all her stuff. And I was like, what is this? The hell? She had a picture next to her light switch of-- was that a picture of Donna with a yo-yo next to G.B. Jones? She had that picture on her wall.

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Rachel Carns:  Oh, yeah. Yeah, right. And a “Troublemakers” movie poster? Definitely a “Yo Yo Gang” poster for sure!

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Radio Sloan:  I don't even remember what it was. But I remember thinking it was really cool. Because it looks like 70s dykes, and I’d never seen a picture of anyone that was a dyke from the 70s really. I mean, you know, that was underground and it was like from Canada, I thought was really cool.

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Rachel Carns:  Wow, that stood out! [laughing]

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, that's like the one thing that I remember.

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Rachel Carns:  That made a big impression. That was a cool poster. It's true, I wish I still had it. Did we answer your question?

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Ali Baker: Yeah, are there any-- I was thinking, Were there any other houses that I know of-- Track House, rest in peace? Did you guys play there?

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Rachel Carns:: Which House? Lucky Seven? What was there?

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Radio Sloan:  We had-- what did we call the house, The Swamp House? Did you ever hear of the Swamp House? Because I got that house. We were doing mud wrestling out there, and we’d do shows where we‘d back our vans up to each other and make a stage so that it was sitting in between-- you know, the [we’d open up the back of the vans and wedge a big piece of plywood between them] and you’d play on that. Fun! Those were fun. [laughing]

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Rachel Carns:  Well, we wouldn't want to have a show inside the house because the floor probably would have collapsed.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, and… the whole basement was flooded with water all the time like, in the way that you could walk down the stairs into the river and row your boat out. [Literally!] So we had the shows outside because we didn’t want anyone to get hurt. That was a good one.

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Rachel Carns:  Last I heard, the Slayer mural I painted was still up in there.

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Radio Sloan:  That's rad.

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Rachel Carns:  I don't know if that's still true.

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Radio Sloan:  I’d like a picture of that.

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Ali Baker:  Did you say a Slayer mural?

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Rachel Carns:  Yeah, I painted a Slayer mural in that place.

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Radio Sloan:  It was sick, it was huge too, it was awesome.

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Ali Baker:  What was the general vibe when you all came to Olympia? What can you tell me about the general atmosphere of the music scene when you were making music as The Need and who inspired the energy around you? Who were you liking? Who were you going to see?

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Rachel Carns:  This is where my memory get super cloudy, I can't remember who all was around at that time. But it wasn't homogenous. It wasn't like-- I feel like now, there's like a metal show, or there's the hardcore show or there's a goth dance night show. Back then you'd have The Need playing-- oh gosh, who was around at the time, it was just like all over the place. Like I guess I'm thinking about earlier Olympia too, it’d be like Heavens to Betsy playing with KARP and the Mukilteo Fairies or something.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, it felt like more friend-based than like music genre-based or whatever, which was really cool. Because you'd see something, you know, a band, or a friend of a friend’s band or whatever, that was totally different music, but it’d influence you, you know, because it's shit you would never thought of yourself, which was nice. There wasn't so many club shows as there are now, either. There weren't as many venues. Is that true? So it just seemed like the kids, you know, [we] ourselves were the ones doing it, if that makes sense.

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Rachel Carns:  Yeah, I hardly remember any bar shows.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, well, we couldn't get-- I mean, I was just barely 21 When I moved here. And Bikini Kill had left town pretty much at that point. Like they were stagnant. And of course, that was a big deal at the time. Heavens to Betsy and Sleater Kinney had started, but they were Portland based. But all of that was still kind of a different music scene than what we were. Those were like  the bands that we knew were friends of ours and stuff, that were out touring and connecting with people. In a massive way, also, it felt like friends parallel to us, but it was still all so very different. Because there was a little bit of a more of a weird queer freak vibe coming from The Need.

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[all laughing]

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Rachel Carns:  There, you said it, Radio.

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Radio Sloan:  We really tried to reach out and use The Need as a way to connect with aliens. You know, we mentioned it- like there’s psychic messages there. That's real, you know, and I don't know if other people were doing that too. But I just think that was a difference in vibe.

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Rachel Carns:  But how inspiring was it that there was so many bands like that coming out of here from that time? I mean, fuck, I mean, even even the dude stuff. I mean, have you heard C Average? Jesus Christ! You know what I mean? Like, I don't know, everyone. There was so many good bands. I'm rambling. I'm gonna grab a little water.

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Ali Baker:  Rachel, what about for you, are there any-- I know you said your memory is a little cloudy on this. But do you remember-- was there that feeling of cohesiveness? When you were playing in The Need, did you feel like, “Oh, I have my people, we have this group of amazing bands that everybody kind of knows each other,” or was it-- how did you feel about it at this time?

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Rachel Carns:  Oh, yeah. I felt totally connected to the community, totally. But not in a homogenous way. Not like we're all the same, you know. But I guess some moments stand out. Like I remember seeing Sherri Fraser play for the first time, Two Ton Boa, when she was just playing by herself. And we were both at that show, and we were just like, “holy shit.” We just went up to her afterwards like, “Can we play music with you?” And then we did for a while. We were in Two Ton Boa for a while. And then Mocket? They were another super great-- It was like, “Oh, my God, you're so great. Can we do something? let's play together.” That's kind of more what happened. It's like, these sort of ongoing projects, or like when we did the 10-inch with Joe Preston, another incredible musician and fantastic weirdo.

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Ali Baker: He was in the Melvins. Right. Yeah. And that was you did Joe Preston. I actually have a question about that. I have this tenant of Vaselina and Talk Party that were released as The Need with Joe Preston and DJ Zena. Can you talk about that single at all?

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Rachel Carns:  We actually played with Joe in Portland for a little while, didn't we? Yeah, we played live shows. He was in The Need for a while, in the very early days.

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Radio Sloan:  We did a tour with him even.

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Rachel Carns:Yeah, gosh, I forgot about that.

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Radio Sloan: Yeah. And so those songs came from that time we were playing with Joe. And I think we were just offered to put out a 10 inch on Up Records, which was just a small side shoot of Sub Pop at the time, and they wanted to put out-

‍

Rachel Carns:  Run by an awesome queer person.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah. What was his name? Chris.

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Rachel Carns: Yeah, he was really cool. And so we jumped at the opportunity to create material for that specific record, I believe. And I just asked, Zena was a friend of ours at the time, who was a DJ in town, and just asked her to contribute what she wanted to on some of the recordings that we had.

‍

And we never really finished that second side, we never really finished the song. So we were like, “Zena, you want to like do some cool DJ stuff at the end of the song, so that that can be like the outro?” rather than I think we were just kind of working with what we had at the time to try to make something cool and interesting. And I think it felt pretty great. I mean, like, Everybody brought their own thing to the table. Zena’s part is totally awesome. Joe, of course, is amazing.

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Radio Sloan: Yeah, Joe’s bass lines on Vaselina were incredible on that record. So good. Blew me away. I remember hearing them first when we were practicing with him and being like, “is he playing wrong notes? Like, what's happening?” And then I finally just started realizing that there were all these crazy harmonies that I'd never even knew existed before. Learned a lot from playing with Joe, also.

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Ali Baker: Totally. That's great. The Vaselina is single is definitely one of my most prized records. The little box. I was looking for it, but I had it like, I got a record player. And that's definitely one of the first things that I-- first pieces of music that I got. And I’ve had it forever. Love it.

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Rachel Carns:  Well, yeah, cuz that would have been ‘98, right? Around when you moved to Olympia.

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Ali Baker:  Yeah.

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Radio Sloan:  Wow, that's really cool.

‍

Ali Baker:  Full circle here.

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Radio Sloan:  How the hell did you get that record? There was only like, what 200 made or something.

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Ali Baker:  The person I was seeing at the time got it for me. They were like, “Hey, I found this, it’s cool. Let's listen to it.” And I'm like, this is incredible. I think I found it at Dumpster Values.

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Radio Sloan:  Oh, sweet. Yeah. Yeah.

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Ali Baker:  Back when I worked at Otto’s for a while and so I'd go into dumpster values and get stuff all the time.

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Rachel Carns:  Oh, yeah. I was reminiscing with someone the other day about-- Well, what I used to do every day, in that period of time, I think I just went and sat on the sidewalk in front of Dumpster Values. I think I did that all day long. You know, and then we'll go to Otto’s and get a bagel and then go back and sit back down outside, smoke cigarettes and hang out with whoever came by. I don't remember. I mean, of course we played music and did a lot of other stuff.

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Radio Sloan:  I had a guitar shop in there for a while, in that location.

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Rachel Carns:  I still have the sign I painted for it down in the basement. [laughing]

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Ali Baker:  You had a guitar shop inside Dumpster Values? Did you fix guitars and like sell them?

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, Radio’s Repairs or Radio’s Guitars. And I would buy old shit and sell it, or fix people's guitars or amps or whatever. But then the Capital City guy came to town and said “why don't you come work for me in my shop? Because you know, otherwise you're just gonna have competition.” And I was like, “ah, okay, you're right. You sweet talked me.” So I closed my shop and I moved i started working with him and that did not last very long.

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Rachel Carns: He’s still here, Bob. Oh, He calls me Rach. I mean, nobody calls me Rach but my dad. Yeah, well, actually Chris Sutton calls me Rach too.

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Ali Baker: Um, let's see. So in between albums, you both along with Nomy Lamm had a band called Teenage Ho-Dads, can you describe and tell me about this band?

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Rachel Carns: How did that band start? I feel like you would remember.

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Radio Sloan: I don't really know. Except for that-- I remember wanting to play like just surf, like straight up surf rock music and have it be easy. And I wanted to sing. I don't know why, I can't sing. I never could. But Nomy can sing really good. And so... I wrote--  I don't remember. I know I remember writing some songs and asking Rachel-- I don't know if I was the one that formed the band. But I just remember asking you and Ricky to play guitar in it. And so me and Nomy were the lead singers and and then they would play this kind of surf rock music.

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Rachel Carns:  You and Nomy would do this back and forth kind of like [hyper-]gendered thing. That was really awesome.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, it was kind of like a little like a surf drag band, if that was a thing. But that was that was a fun-- That was a good house party band. That was the point, just to hang out with our friends and have those songs. You know, we don't have any recording or anything of that. I should look and see if I have something somewhere someday. I probably have a video of it or something. Yeah. How do you even know about that? It shouldn't exist.

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Ali Baker:  Wikipedia. I found it on Wikipedia, that fact. Someone knows about y'all.

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Radio Sloan:  Somebody does. I don't know. I have nothing to do with any of that. I have no idea how you know what you do...

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Rachel Carns:  Every now and then when I look on a Wikipedia page that has queer stuff on it. Larry Bob Roberts, from San Francisco. Do you remember that person down there? He's a longtime, like queer historian and archivist. And he will often be the person that goes in there and changes, corrects things. I usually see his name in there. Could be him, could be other people. I don't know.

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Radio Sloan:  

Interesting.

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Ali Baker:  Yeah. Um, was it kind of like, more like a little breath... It seems like The Need is, to me, like a serious-- like, when I hear something like Vaselina, I'm like, “this is a serious song, in my opinion.” It's got this dark edge to it, which I love. But, you know, it sounds like the Teenage Ho-Dads were kind of fun, like-- was that kind of intentional to take a little breath to get away from that and have a--

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Radio Sloan:  yeah, totally, a fun party band. Not hard music to play. So you could like drink a beer and do it same time. I mean, you know what I mean? Whereas The Need, you know, you just had to like, meditate, go into, like a hibernation tank/mind meld/take off my brain, like, really! It took a lot to prepare for stuff, we practiced. We practice so much. Hours and hours every day. That's mostly what we did.

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Rachel Carns:  But you know, it was a lot cheaper to live here then. Yeah.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so the Ho-Dads were just like, let's have this fun thing. It took us no time to throw that together. And we had a great time. That's when we did start working with Nomy by the way, kind of like musically, and realizing what a great fucking singer she was. This happened before Transfused, right? Maybe at the same time. I'm not sure about the timeline there.

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Rachel Carns: Yeah, I'm not sure, it's been 20 years.

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Ali Baker:  Thank you for remembering all this. Speaking of The Transfused, can you tell me about The Transfused, what it was and what it was like to co-write and produce it with Nomy Lamm?

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Rachel Carns:  Well, we didn't know what we were getting into. We didn't know what we were-- Nobody had a vision really for exactly what was going to happen. It was super collaborative, how everything came together. Well, the Genesis of the story, in my opinion anyway, was the dyke wars, the dyke gang wars. We used to go [to the downtown] Safeway where City Hall is now, and we'd all bring our vans and muscle cars. We’d crank metal or punk or whatever we were listening to, and [usually show up in] some sort of drag, like if you wanted to be like a greaser dude, if you wanted to be like a bobby socks and high pumps, person, you know, I don't know, we were just like fucking around and having fun. But how did this [inaudible] happen?

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Radio Sloan: I don't remember. Honestly, I really don't remember, I know. We went down to Safeway a lot in different gangs, we’d split up in gangs and dress up crazy and act like we were fighting each other in the parking lot.

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Rachel Carns: But we didn't really know them.

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Radio Sloan:  No, because like people's friends would come in from out of town. Like you’d get try to get more people on your gang to show up at the parking lot to fight. But really, it was like kind of making out.

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Rachel Carns:  It wasn't like actual fighting, [but there was still a sense of danger, cuz who really knew? We did not actually know these people well. It was like an unscripted street version of a play party, haha]

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, it was like… a date or something. It was more like, “who's hot that's going to be there?” And “who are you going to hook up with” and blah, blah, blah. But there was this crew of people that were [part of a] slightly different queer scene in town. Farm punk people. They were more on the activist tip-- farm activist type punks. Yeah, you know, like Freddie. Just a slightly different crew. And then our friends... we all played in bands, and we were all like scrawny [damaged art kids] and they all worked on the farm. And they were all like, strong or tough. We went off.

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Rachel Carns:  And did they call us like the scrawny wimps or something?

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Radio Sloan:  Rachel, I don't remember.

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Rachel Carns:  You could get kidnapped–like one of our friends got kidnapped by them and dragged around in a dog kennel? [Yes, that happened!] I mean, she [made it very clear that she was enjoying] herself. This was all very consensual. Basically, we were all just flirting with each other. Anyway, out of this, somehow we [laid down our arms and] started having conversations about projects that we wanted to do. And this idea of writing a rock opera came up.

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Radio Sloan:  I know, I remember, like definitely saying, “oh, there's such a lack of actually good musicals.” You know, like, where like the music-- because I like really dark. Evil music. I don't like major keys.

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Rachel Carns:  Nomy came out of musical theater. And I think that's how this topic came up.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah. And Nomy, I remember talking to her, her being like, “No, it can be cool. There is [all] this [great] stuff.” And of course, she's such a great singer. That I think that's how it emerged. I believe that idea would have come from her because I would have never thought we could create a rock opera. I'd never even seen one… I just thought that the concept of that would be really cool. Coming from our broke asses. It ended up being really crazy, man. Talk about practicing. It was like two hours straight of music, live music, you know. Need music. [laughing] Yeah, that's that's probably one of the hardest things I've ever done, Like musically challenging.

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Rachel Carns:  Yeah, I agree. We worked on it for a full year.

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Radio Sloan:  And yeah, that's how it started. And and so we basically became like this little collective because we had the [rival dyke] gangs. We had Freddy doing choreography, and Nomy was coordinating most of the vocal work and Rachel and Nomy wrote all the vocals and lyrics for it.

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Rachel Carns: Nomy wrote most of the lyrics. We wrote the plot together, though.

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Nomy and I spent a lot of time on their stoop hashing out the plot, and then we would sometimes bring it to the group to figure out where certain areas of the plot would go next if we got stumped.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah. And, I mean, honestly, I just I remember just writing song after song on four track, and then bringing it to those guys and trying to pick out which stuff to work on. And then when we got kind of a loose idea together, we held auditions to to get people to be in this thing. And I think we had 22 cast members. And I think 22 People auditioned. [laughing]]

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Rachel Carns:  Wait, I thought there was one person who didn't get in.

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Radio Sloan:  I don't remember that. That's not nice. [big laugh]

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Ali Baker:  When I talked to Mirah, she said that probably one of her favorite memories of being an Olympia was being in The Transfused.

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Rachel Carns:  It had to be so fun for the cast, too. I was kind of jealous of them in a way because our part was actually really hard. Like, there was one day-- just stamina wise. And it felt terrible. But something-- I just couldn't play drums anymore. I just couldn't play anymore. And the 50 people who were there for the rehearsal all had to go home because I couldn't do my thing. You know, I just reached a breaking point. Yeah, and I probably didn't manage my stress very well at that time, either, you know. But yeah, it was a lot of work.

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Radio Sloan: Yeah, lots of coordinated rehearsals with 22 cast members singing and wireless headset microphones. It was really busy. Huge props. Roni did props for us.

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Rachel Carns: And someone else did the costumes. Ellery maybe? And we did have somebody doing fundraising. So we [managed to get] money for this from various places. I think we formed a 501 C3 or something, that was not my department, we had to-- well, it was a big lesson in letting go, too. Just, “okay, I'm just gonna concentrate on my thing. I don't know what the costumes are gonna look like. I don't know what the props are going to look like. I don't know what the melodies for the vocals are going to be. I don't know what Nomy's lyrics are.” And it was very different than-- I think I'd only been in mostly two-person bands at that time where things were very collaborative and very intimate. And this was very different from that.

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Radio Sloan: Yeah, it really grew into a big monster, man. We did not think it was gonna be what it ended up being. And when all is said and done, the town was fucking on fire. Like after the last show, you know-- we had four sold out shows. Two weeks.

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Rachel Carns: I don't know how many shows...

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Radio Sloan: But like, I can remember the last show, man, everybody in the audience got up and took over the streets of Olympia. Like, really!

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Rachel Carns: Like a spontaneous parade. Were you living here at the time? Did you go?

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Ali Baker:  I did not go. No, I didn't know about it.

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Radio Sloan:  That's okay. We didn't know how all those people even did know about it. It was crazy. I can't explain it to you. We wanted people to come but then, wow! You couldn't get in! You know? How lucky.

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Ali Baker:  I was gonna ask you, Do you remember the feeling you had when you found out that you had every show sold out? Or did you find out at once, or was it like, “What?!” Or was it kind of just like, “I didn't really notice, I was too busy working” and then like when you lifted your head up like there were all the people?

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Rachel Carns:  I think it also-- I mean, it's not I'm sure that I was surprised and overjoyed and thrilled, but it also just in the crest of that year of putting the whole thing together, everything coming to a head, coming to a head, coming to a head. So many rehearsals, so many people, so many rehearsals, so many people. Of course the thing is sold out!! It's just like, “oooooh!” And then it was over. It's like, “Oh, okay. What now?”

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Ali Baker:  Yeah. What did you do after The Transfused?

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Rachel Carns:  Well, somebody decided to do Lady Fest… I guess I did do one show at that.

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Radio Sloan:  We played at it, but we didn't have anything to do [with it]-- we were so burned out. There was no juice left to squeeze out of us for a while after that.

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Rachel Carns:  I did a drag show at that, Dude Looks Like a Lady Fest.

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Radio Sloan:  Oh, yeah, yeah.

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Ali Baker:  So The Need played right? At Lady Fest. And then you also did a drag show?

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Rachel Carns:  Yeah. I think I just emceed it. I can't remember how much I had to do with putting it together.

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Ali Baker:  And so you said that you felt a little bit burnt out? Did you have any like, feeling of experiencing Lady Fest and like, Oh, this is a cool new thing, breakthrough? Or were you just kind of tired because of the Transfused?

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Radio Sloan:  Well, Lady Fest, of course, was awesome. But you know, Yoyo a Gogo had been happening here. I mean, that was a big draw and a big reason why people came here from out of town and there was a platform for all the music that was happening. So you kind of have to-- it was similar to that. But I mean, awesome that it was just Lady Fest and just going out you know, targeting women-identified people for those shows, which is rad. I mean, but honestly, I was pretty much asleep. I was still recovering. I mean, we played it but my life-- it really like took a minute, for me at least, to breathe.

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Rachel Carns: When I was living in the one of the studios above Dumpster Values at the time, and like showering at the Y- I didn't have a kitchen or anything, but my bathroom was through the Arrowspace and they were holding workshops all week in there for whatever Lady Fest zine making workshop or consent workshop or whatever workshop they were doing. So I'd wake up at like one in the afternoon or whatever and stumbled through this workshop of earnest young punks learning their skills to like go brush my teeth in the Arrowspace bathroom. And of course, the Lady Fest shows were great, but yeah, that definitely just came at a time when we were coming down from that Transfused experience. Was that the same summer?

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Radio Sloan: I think they did that the summer after Transfused, but yeah, I mean we definitely-- I know I definitely had no energy to be an organizer of any kind of group conversation after the Transfused for a while. I don't know. I learned so much, man. It's crazy. Have you ever done anything that requires more than four band members? Musical Theater?

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Ali Baker:  Well once yeah, we did a-- yeah, I don't want to make this about what I've done. But one time there was a kind of a big production that I was involved in, we did a cover of Stairway to Heaven or something and I was singing and there's all these different parts and I'm like, “I can't believe how many people had time to come together to make it happen.” But all the bands I've been in, or do like three person bands or four at the most, so not anything big and never organizing any like festivals or anything. We were just asked to play and showed up.

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Radio Sloan: Sure. It’s hard to do.

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Ali Baker:  Sometimes it really was. So you put out another album as The Need. And actually before I talk about, I wanna talk about all these great bands that you toured with. And it seems like it was very diverse. Like, Tribe 8, Fugazi, The Ex, Bright Eyes, Le Tigre

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Rachel Carns: I don't think we played with Bright Eyes.

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Ali Baker: Okay, well, I thought that might be a stretch, but I saw it in here and I'm just like, “really?”

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Rachel Carns:  I mean, we maybe played a festival somewhere with them, I don't remember. Oh, we've maybe played with them in the Midwest somewhere or something. You know, like, sometimes it's like… [we happen to be on tour in Ohio on the same date as Bright Eyes so we end up playing together]

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Radio Sloan: I'm gonna say yes, because there's a good chance we just don't remember. Sorry.

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Ali Baker: So you went on tour out of Olympia with most of those bands. And also Sleater Kinney too?

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Rachel Carns: We toured with Sleater Kinney for sure. I don't know if we actually necessarily “toured” with all those bands you listed, though we played shows with them out of town for sure. We toured with Blonde Redhead. We toured with Patsy for sure we toured with BS 2000- Is that what they're called?

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Radio Sloan: Yeah. And Le Tigre. Are we leaving someone out? But that would be multiple shows with those bands, where otherwise we’d just play a festival with them, or play with them in their town. Or when they came to Seattle, we would open for them if they were like a big band like Jon Spencer, right? What was that band? Boss Hog or whatever? We're like “What? Really? Okay!”

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Rachel Carns: Touring with The Ex was a real honor. They were just super incredible. I think we didn't necessarily tour with them. But maybe we played like Seattle and Portland with them, something like that. I know we played more than one show. I don't remember… I think maybe it was Fugazi, too.

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Radio Sloan: Fugazi, we did play a couple shows with.

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Rachel Carns: Yeah, they asked us to go on tour, but you and I were fighting at the time, and I said no. [all laughing] That probably could have changed a lot of stuff. Well, we were just Yeah, we were, you know--

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Radio Sloan: We never did anything we didn't want to do. Or that Rachel didn't want to do.

[all laughing]

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Rachel Carns: It was just the timing. I would have loved to do that tour. Yeah, it's funny. We never quite got the break that it seems like a lot of other bands got. We were just always a little bit too weird or something. Always underground, we’re forever underground, The Need.

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Radio Sloan: People wanted something they could dance to.

[all laughing]

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Ali Baker:  Well, The Need is so unique, so special. It's a band that-- you just cannot replicate that type of magic-- that was in the air, and kind like you were saying-- I don't know, this feeling of-- When I used to go to shows and started going to shows, it really felt like I'd found something that I really liked. And that I wanted it to be weird and dark. Similar. I didn't want to be a pop princess person. So you guys, did you ever put out any zines or do any other kind of collaborations while you're in The Need? Or tape trading? Or can you remember doing any other like collaborative projects with any other folks in Olympia while you're in The Need at that time?

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Rachel Carns: That's a good question. I don't think I really did any zine stuff by that time. I did a little bit earlier, my earlier Olympia days. But not not so much during The Need era. We talked about the Mocket collaboration. Or, I don't know, did we actually talk about it? We didn't talk about it much. We did one record with Mocket where you and Matt made all these like crazy, wingding electronic things. Like, did you mic my drums and some weird way that triggered something? Yeah, I don't remember how all that worked. That was a cool collab.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, I don’t know. Rachel made so much art for posters in town. And I mean, jeez, anything... in my opinion, whenever you saw something with her art, it created a “look here” sign. It's gonna be cool. I mean, you know, like, it speaks so loud. I mean, just whether it was a record cover from people in town. Or posters, signs, anything, you know. An event. Fanzines though, neither one of us really sat around and did that. I had one fanzine that we took on tour with us, and I gave them out at all the shows, and it was called The day i met Glenn Danzig. And it was about when I was a teenager, I really liked Danzig. Don’t be mad at me. But I like the music was really cool. And I didn't know till later that he's a total dick. So I wrote a fanzine about it, my experience meeting him when I was a teenager. And I explain the experience, which was terrible. And I gave it to people. And I keep-- I mean to this day, I still hear from other people about how funny that fanzine was… that's it. That's the only fanzine I ever made.

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Ali Baker: Definitely. Did you guys ever-- there was Positively 4^th.. and I guess that was earlier on and-- like, I'm trying to think of a place that Kathleen Hannah made, Reko Muse. Did you ever like perform in there?

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Rachel Carns: That was early on, that was actually even before I moved to Olympia. I moved to Olympia in ‘92. And I think that the muse is maybe gone by then.

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Ali Baker: Radio, Are you from the Pacific Northwest originally?

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Radio Sloan: Yeah, I’m from Portland.

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Ali Baker:  So I’ve got a couple more questions. Hope this is okay.

‍

Ali Baker: You live in Portland now?

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Radio Sloan:  I live in Ridgefield. That's in Washington State, but just like 12 miles from from Portland. Live in the country.

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Ali Baker:  20 years ago, like you said, and trying to remember all this stuff might be a little-- I just want to give some-- I did make a mistake. I said that your first album was The Need Is Dead. And that was not your first album. Your guys’ first album was self titled, correct?

‍

Rachel Carns: Yeah.

‍

Ali Baker: And then the second album, The Need Is Dead. And then you did another one… why did you decide to dissolve The Need and how did you come back and make the resurrection album? Or was that the last-- How did that timeline go?

‍

Rachel Carns:  Well, the resurrection album was more a collection of things that hadn't been released. We put it together because we were doing A series of shows in 2010 or 2013, something like that.

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Radio Sloan: Yeah, we just remastered everything ourselves and put it out on cassette, just specifically for those shows that we were playing. Because we just wanted to make those recordings available to everybody at one place because they weren't.

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Rachel Carns:  And I think it was things that had been on compilations that were out of print and yeah, stuff like that. But yeah, so in 2000-ish, not too long after Lady Fest. I don't know, when did you move to LA… 2001?

‍

Radio Sloan:  Early 2000s. I can't remember exactly. I was 24 when I moved, I know that. But I moved to LA. We were playing down there. Rachel was coming down [every other month]. We were practicing back and forth. But then it was just--

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Rachel Carns: It was just hard. I would go spend a month there and then come back. And yeah, it was just too hard to keep it going long distance. And so it just kind of faded. I mean, we even tried having a bass player down there. We just tried to change things up. And it was just-- I don't know, it had just kind of run its course for that iteration or something.

‍

Rachel Carns:  Well, I think this is it's kind of interesting, because we had just kind of fallen out of touch after that. Because our lives had been so entwined, you know, and  super close. And then when you moved away, we didn't really, I don't know-- I didn't know how to have a relationship with you that wasn't [enmeshed] like that. So we just kind of drifted apart and like, had our own lives for like the next 10 years. And then out of nowhere, Anna Huff (Anna Oxygen) gets in touch and is working on this musical-- it’s kind of musical theater. Technical musical technical theater project. It was with some people from Cal Arts that [she’d gone to school with]--I don't think they were in school at the time, were they? I don't think so. Anyway, it was this project called Cloud Eye Control with like, huge moving computer projections on stage. And Anna was singing and wrote the music. And it was this incredible stage spectacle, very technologically advanced, [video synced with the click track but with some room for human breath and movement within that digital structure,] and so on. And she contacted us and wanted The Need to write an overture for this piece that she was working on. And I mean, we hadn't even really talked much in like the past ten years, like maybe just here and there, you know. And then we were just like, okay, okay. Sure. And so that's when we reconnected. Yeah, it was just like, boom, our connection was still there. We wrote this really cool piece of music for her.

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Radio Sloan:  We played some live performances with their project.

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Rachel Carns: Yeah, we did. it was interesting, because she wrote stuff on keyboard, mostly. And then you would have to play it on the guitar. And I would have to figure out how to play it on like electronic drums and sometimes I’d play glockenspiel and stuff. So yeah, we were in the live band for that and toured with it a bit. It was fun and interesting and strange. And I'm grateful to Anna for hooking us back up because, I don't know, we could just be off in our own corners doing little things. I missed you, man.

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Radio Sloan: I know I missed you. And we're both such big ass Leos you know that no one’s soft enough to just be like, “Hey.” We kinda needed somebody to smash our heads back in together.

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Ali Baker:  

Okay, I love that you're both Leos, that's so cool. I'm like a little Pisces. I'm like, “hi!” [laughing]

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Ali Baker: Rachel, I was going to say-- so Radio, you moved to Los Angeles, I read that you did stuff with like Courtney Love, Peaches. You played with Peaches band. Rachel, you've gone on to do other things too. Like, right now you're in-- you want to tell me about your projects that you are currently in now? And do you ever plan on having a Need reunion?

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Rachel Carns: Which thing’s first? So right now I play keyboards and synths in Nudity. I also have an improv synth project called Looops, Looops with three O's. And I did have some other bands in the early 2000s too, King Cobra and Twin. And I’ve had various other project bands along the way. I mean, you know, once you’re a lifer you just keep doing it with whatever extra time you have, once you become a person who has to have a job and things like that. Gosh, I wish I could just play music all day long like I did— in the ‘90s.

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Radio Sloan:  Any fuckin’ time, man.

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Ali Baker:  And you're running Magic Kombucha now too? Shout out.

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Rachel Carns: Yep, totally. Thanks. So we did some reunion shows in 2013-- we played some-- did we do a tour?? West Coast tour, maybe? Or we did we at least played some shows in Portland and Seattle and Olympia. We toured the west coast down to Los Angeles with Hysterics and Behead the Prophet.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah. But we also did like a Michelle Tea show.

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Rachel Carns:  Yeah, we did a show. We did some shows with Deya.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah. And Andrea.

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Rachel Carns: We had some other people in the band.

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Radio Sloan:  It was like a reunion, but more it was just we got invited to play a cool show somewhere. And we’ll do it, if it's the right show, I guess!

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Rachel Carns:  I mean, you had a kid too. So

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, since last six years, a child has been taken over my life. Kid’s in school, y’know.

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Ali Baker:  If you move to Olympia... I like trying to push you together.

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Radio Sloan:  We played today, lady! You don't have to push us together! [Laughing]

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Rachel Carns:  You got here at 1:30, we went and ate lunch and immediately went out and played music until it was time to talk to you. So we've had a good day.

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Ali Baker:  Rachel, what made you want to stay in Olympia? Did you stay in Olympia from The Need on? Or did you move away?

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Rachel Carns: Yeah, I stayed here. Yeah. I'm in the same fucking house. They keep raising the rent. Hopefully, hopefully, I'll be able to continue staying here. Yeah, it's just-- it’s my home. I don't know, maybe someday I'll feel compelled to leave. But right now I have a business that keeps me here. Because of the artesian well water.

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Radio Sloan: Can  I ask a question? After you went to college, you moved to Washington, DC.

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Rachel Carns: I did briefly. Yeah.

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Radio Sloan: Why did you move from DC to Olympia?

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Rachel Carns: Well, I had already been planning on moving to Olympia. This would this is probably a topic for I don't know if we're still going to do an individual interview with me. Tae and I started playing together as Kicking Giant in New York, and we came to Olympia on tour and really liked it here. And we were just looking for a place to move that wasn't New York that was cheap. And it was like the polar opposite of New York, you know. There, we were trying to play our “tra-la-la” music at like these dark bars on the lower east side, you know, you can imagine. I mean, it was very sweet. There was a supportive scene there as well, [but it really felt like the forces of urban despair and gentrification were wearing me down]. So yeah, so Tae moved out here before I did, and then I kind of got [distracted for a minute] and moved to DC-- I don't know, you know, I was a free spirit. [There was a lot happening in DC at that time as well, I was living in Kathleen Hanna’s pantry haha…] Anyway Nikki McClure was saving a room for me at the Red House. It was like $30 a month. It was literally $30 a month. [Coming from New York City that was just unreal!} And so for that summer, I moved to DC because I wasn't totally convinced that I was gonna go to Olympia. I just didn't know exactly what I was doing, I was feeling things out.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, that's fair.

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Rachel Carns:  And I went to DC and I started playing with Slant 6, and I went on a tour with them. And then things shifted. Other feelings and forces converged. It was like, “Okay, it’s time, I'm gonna move to Olympia.” And Tim Green decided to move, quit Nation of Ulysses and move to Olympia. So we moved to Olympia together.

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Radio Sloan:  Okay. Yeah, I wondered that, haha!

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Rachel Carns:  I guess the way that I seem to live my life is by finding that balance between riding the waves of what's going on around you, and also being able to make your own decisions about things to-- It’s a balance. It’s about interdependence I guess.

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Radio Sloan:  No-- I mean, that's kind of an unexplainable thing, too. It's not tangible... only a certain type of person that's going to know how to [consciously] ride that wave. It's really an interesting balance. I hadn’t really thought about that before.

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Rachel Carns:  Anyway, I can't remember what the question was haha—-...

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Ali Baker:  Radio asked you why you moved from DC to Olympia.

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Rachel Carns:  Oh, yeah. That's why, yeah.

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Ali Baker:  Do you think that the natural environment shaped the music, the natural environment being Olympia, surrounding areas? The grayness, the rain, the green, the beauty, but also the darkness.

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Rachel Carns:  We were talking about that earlier, just a couple hours ago about how, especially in that era in the ‘90s, my whole world was downtown, I think. I don't even think I went to Mount Rainier until after I'd lived here for like, 15 years. You know, it just wasn't my thing. I didn't drive. I didn't have a driver's license. You drove my ass around, or whoever. But yeah, of course the darkness and the grayness. I still chafe against it. Y'all are Northwest natives. So you it's, it's in your blood, but I'm like, sometimes I'm like, “the fuck am I doing here?” [laughing] I still think I need to find a way to snowbird during the winter. It does make for good poetry.

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Ali Baker:  Absolutely. I like to ask musicians that question who are from here because, you know, sometimes--  like Mount Eerie, I feel like is very Northwestern type of music, you know, it has a certain-- and there's certain other bands that have this downtrodden, sludgy, rainy sound. And I feel like I could put The Need in there. Not to put you guys in a box of sound, but I think there could be many boxes. It's definitely one of them.

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Rachel Carns: There's a lineage too, that I think specifically comes out of Portland. Yeah. Wipers, Dead Moon. Two big ones that have that darkness as the fuel.

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Radio Sloan:  Napalm Beach, another one.

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Rachel Carns:  And I think that that is something that I probably learned from you, or learned to pick up on, or learned to groove on from you, because that's just your-- it's your blood.

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Radio Sloan:  Yeah, I grew up hearing that kind of stuff for sure. In my mind, you can't strum a guitar and not at least chug it a little bit. I mean, I don't really know how to play like, like chords, you know, like guitar like, a perfect D or like-- because none of the bands that I saw growing up did any of that. So yeah, the weather affects you here. It does in form your sound, I think. I think in the beginning, coming to Olympia and having the town not be-- it still looked like it was the 1960s here. I also really was inspired by that. I don't know if that ever rung true for you. But like, all the houses, all the buildings were still old stuff. Nothing had been remodeled. People weren't moving there a lot. For me that stood out, aesthetically. I liked that it felt like progressive politics, but yet visually preserved in time. You know, everybody could still drive old cars. Stuff that, I feel like, affected the kind of music that I wanted to make, personally. If that makes any connection to the sentence in your question. Those are the things that stood out. But yeah, the mountains? Never saw ‘em. Didn't go to the beach. Didn't know there were parks around because our cars wouldn't make it that far. If they did, we were going on tour in ‘em! I mean, money-- We were, are still pretty broke. I mean, that's what [really] forms your sound. [laughter] Class.

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Rachel Carns:  We could build anything we needed to build. You like built me a headset mic and like, all kinds of weird stuff.

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Radio Sloan:  You have to, out of survival. I mean, that's how we’d get around. Somebody had to fix the shit. So you're the one that would get the shows, and then I would have to make the car get us there.

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Rachel Carns:  And there was an infamous moment. This might have been CeBe Barns Band tour, maybe The Need, I'm not sure. We were in a van though. And we broke down near Mount Shasta, we were rounding that big bridge. And you fixed a fuckin-- some fucking broke busted pipe or tube or something by wiring a coke can around it until we could get to the next place.

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Radio Sloan: Yeah. And it worked!

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Ali Baker: That's amazing.

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Radio Sloan: I mean, it sucked!

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Ali Baker: It's just so cool that you can make it work though.

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Radio Sloan:  You didn’t have a choice! Stranded on the road with all of our gear, which is everything we owned, and my dog in the car. And Rachel. What you gonna do?

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Ali Baker: I’d totally be like, “Well, we're living here, I guess.”

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Radio Sloan:  That's all it is. So I want to make sure I get any questions or anything that you want to say. I don't want to miss something or like, if you want to say anything else, I do have one more question. But you know, I just wanted to make sure that you two got to say what you wanted to say.

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Rachel Carns: I don’t think I have anything else.

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Ali Baker: All right, that's a kind of a weird introduction. I think my final question is, what would you like to see in Olympia in the future? Like musically, spaces, practice spaces? What would you both like to see for the future of creative souls in Olympia?

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Rachel Carns:  I would like to see more affordable housing. I think there's a great music scene happening right now. There's so many kids going to shows. Like, hundreds and hundreds of teenagers packing the all ages venues every time there's an all ages show. It's great. And now they're starting to form their own bands. There's all kinds of trans and genderqueer kids, and it's just fucking awesome. I think it's going off. I can't imagine anything being better, to be honest. But there's no place for people to live. It's just too expensive. I don't know what to do about that. That's something that if I could change, I would… like I was saying-- when you're working all the time to make rent, you just don't have time to devote to creative activities. You know, most of these people to I'm talking about are much younger. And now, people get older quicker. They have to get a job. They have to, you know. The few remaining punk houses that are left are burning down. Like the Track House.

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Radio Sloan: I know that always having an all ages space, or many spaces here, I feel is the most important. It's just always a different kind of vibe, you know, the bar show versus the all ages show. And that's always been the coolest part about Olympia. So I would just like to see more of that, more of the same. I mean, that's it. It creates a platform for generations to come if you create some kind of music or art that is inviting to everybody, you know? If you can still go to shows that your parents will go to when the kids are, I mean-- you know, all the way. It doesn't always have to be about a damn dirty bar making money. You know what I mean? And that's what's the best about house shows and everything out here. All ages spaces have always been first and foremost for people in this community to make.

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Rachel Carns: Yeah, there's two really great all ages places happening right now, The Voyeur and The Mortuary, and then various house shows. But all ages spaces tend to be kind of temporary. They go in cycles. And usually the ones that are longer lasting are city funded. Not necessarily in Olympia, maybe I'm thinking of Seattle. But yeah, those places don't have any-- they just have no vibe. They're too clean. Just not-- it's like the kids didn't build it when the kids put the thing together. That's where things happen. Yeah, I mean, not to be ungrateful for cities who fund all ages spaces. That's cool, obviously.

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Radio Sloan:  But just leave a little trash on the floor sometimes.

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Ali Baker:  Yeah. Put some duct tape on something

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Radio Sloan:  Let people graffiti shit and leave it there. Just clean the bathroom once a week. [laughing]

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Ali Baker:  Totally. Not every place can be The Voyeur bathroom.

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Radio Sloan:  I haven't been in there yet.

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Rachel Carns:  They just got new toilet seats that are shaped like strawberries. They're really incredible. Yeah, we should maybe play there..

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Ali Baker:  Well, thank you so much for agreeing to do this. And I'm glad we got to do it before you all go do your thing. And yeah, I just really appreciate you. And I love The Need. And thank you, thanks for doing this. It's like a personal little, like, “I got to interview The Need. Ha!”

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Rachel Carns:  

This was really great. Thank you.

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